Mark Driscoll

[DeWayneTN]

I'm currently reading a book by Mark Driscoll called Vintage Jesus, which is very good. I'm enjoying it quite a bit. Mark is the pastor of Seattle's Mars Hill Church and has sometimes been a lightning rod for criticism. He also started out in the Emergent world but has since distanced himself from that. He is very witty and sometimes irreverent but theologically conservative - I thought of Gerald (in fact, he takes issue with some television preachers in the book). Has anyone heard of him? Your thoughts?

[MrDanger]

Yeah, I have heard of him and read an article by him. I like what he had to say. He reminds me of Rob Bell quite a bit (pastor of the Mars Hill Church in Grand Rapids). Both of them have distanced themselves somewhat from the Emergent church movement, but hold to some of their ways of looking at the life of Christ.

By the way, you never did expound upon what you thought of Rob Bell's tour that you saw. What did he say? What did you think of him and what he taught?

[Paully_44]

I have heard of him, and seen a few video's of his on You Tube. I have been wanting to visit his church, just to see what it is like..... one of these days. I like their belief statement.

Mars Hill Church

But our goal must always be love and concern for our friends so that we don’t enjoy our freedom at the expense of their faith.

Good words to live by.



They are definately not for the ultra conservative, but maybe that is what intrigues me about them.

[Pastor Gary]

I'm currently reading a book by Mark Driscoll called Vintage Jesus, which is very good. I'm enjoying it quite a bit. Mark is the pastor of Seattle's Mars Hill Church and has sometimes been a lightning rod for criticism. He also started out in the Emergent world but has since distanced himself from that. He is very witty and sometimes irreverent but theologically conservative - I thought of Gerald (in fact, he takes issue with some television preachers in the book). Has anyone heard of him? Your thoughts?

Know a bit about Driscoll. Don't always agree with him, but he always challenges my thinking, and I enjoy that. Gerald would actually love Driscoll for his take-no-prisoners stand on many things. I offer as example his take on Joel Osteen's theology in this YouTube clip: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7IuiUOapK1w

[DeWayneTN]

You know, I appreciated the fact that the room was packed and everyone hung on every word Rob said (he grabs your attention). There was a lot of information.

I think toward the end it made me a little uneasy that he seemed to gloss over the importance of repentence with Jesus' sacrifice. He said that Jesus' sacrifice was not about repentence but about making peace in the world. It seemed open ended, that you could take what you wanted to from it.

I read a critique of it by Jesse Johnson that summed up some of what I was kicking around in my head:

If a person is looking for a smoking gun pointing to heresy in what Bell said, he did not leave one. He did define repentance this way: “Repentance is what happens when your eyes are opened and you see what has already been done. ‘I’ve missed it, and now I see it’.” Later he said, “repentance is grounding yourself in Jesus’ resurrection.” Probably not heresy, but definitely not helpful, and patently unclear.

The Gospel was not explained. Instead there was a plea to realize that God is not angry with you, Jesus has made peace, so now go and do good works, acts of kindness and love. Essentially it was a “love Jesus, and buy groceries for the poor” kind of message. The problem is that even his illustrations of these deeds were shallow: it was as if Extreme Makeover was the end for which God created the word.

[MrDanger]

Know a bit about Driscoll. Don't always agree with him, nut he always challenges my thinking, and I enjoy that.

Was that a freudian slip there PG?

[DeWayneTN]

Driscoll is funny. I just read in the book where he talks about "Christian Science - is neither Christian nor science, kinda like Grape Nuts is neither grape nor nuts." He also has a cool testimony of being in a college fraternity and suddenly receiving Christ in the middle of it and then moving out.

[Pastor Gary]

Know a bit about Driscoll. Don't always agree with him, nut he always challenges my thinking, and I enjoy that.

Was that a freudian slip there PG?

It was a "I need to finish my coffee" slip.

[MrDanger]

Cool. I loved Jesse Johnson in The Time (80's music reference).

From time to time, Rob says those type of things and makes me hesitate. Putting it all together with listening to his weekly sermons clarifies though. He does teach repentance for sins. However, he is big on that Jesus' message was not just a "religious" message, it was a social message also. If I fault him on one thing, he works hard to focus on the social aspect since so many churches do not. It seems to make him gloss over the "religious" nature of things. However, if you hear him over the long term, you get the whole picture of what he teaches.

Saying that, there are some of his teachings that I disagree with. Some of them, over time and doing research of scripture and customs, have found that he is accurate. That tends to make me more uncomfortable because I have to admit I am wrong.

[DeWayneTN]

Cool. I loved Jesse Johnson in The Time (80's music reference).

O - weee - O - weee - O!

[Jennifer Smith]

Like PG, I like some of his message and disagree with some. I like the idea of laying aside a superficial religious approach. Churches do need to meet people where they are at in our culture. Maybe not all can or should be that "relevant" (meaning socially conformed or accepting). But, maybe it takes all kinds of churches.

There are places where I draw the line, when reverence for God or the Bible as the Word of God is compromised. When the fear of God or respect for His commandments is compromised, a big red flag comes up for me. Driscoll seems like a person who thinks a lot and is good at describing his process of thought. So I'm sure he is on the right track in some things.

[DeWayneTN]

I had some hesitation before I started reading the book but it's pretty solid. I think you would like it.

[dolfan]

Cool. I loved Jesse Johnson in The Time (80's music reference).

O - weee - O - weee - O!

THE reason to watch Purple Rain.

[Gerald Creasy]

I'll definitely check this guys books out; I had never heard of him before.

I watched that Youtube video, Pastor Gary. There wasnt enough teeth griting for my tastes but It was eerily similar to something I did before our mens group. Yet I offered scriptural rebuttal to the teachings that were given as examples. Some of the things he said were almost word for word.

Good Grief that Osteen clip: Dingbat Christianity, shallow, void of Biblical knowledge--shows how far you can go with good looks, perfect hair and coon grin.

[one love]

Im sorry I feel that when many say they cant stand the religous "norm" they are often speaking of discipline. Not always and some are sincere but many just do not want to hear that we are to live a holy life as portrayed by Jesus. Yet they would rather just say we are all sinners everyday and that is how it is. Here is the link that was given.

Hence, Mars Hill Church is in favor of good beer (in moderation), great sex (in marriage), and even tattoos (Jesus has one). But our goal must always be love and concern for our friends so that we don’t enjoy our freedom at the expense of their faith.

In this way, we are seeking to simultaneously heed the Bible’s commands to have sound doctrine (1Timothy 4:16; Titus 1:9, 2:1), to love our Christian brothers and sisters (1 Peter 4:8; 1 John 4:7-21), and to avoid unnecessary divisions (Romans 16:17; 1 Corinthians 1:10, 12:25; Titus 3:10).