conservative

[DaJudge]

To me conservative means devotion to the following principles, in no particular order:

1. Smaller government
2. Lower taxes
3. Protection of the rights of the unborn
4. Private sector solutions to problems, rather than big government "solutions"
5. Tough penalties for criminals, including the death penalty where appropriate
6. Strong national defense, including the option of preemptive war where necessary.
7. Defense of our national borders and strong enforcement of our immigration laws.
8. Strict adherence to the US Constitution as written.
9. Defense of the traditional family unit.

[dolfan]

1-4, in my own mind, are conservative. The rest are not necessarily "conservative" (some liberals would want a strong defense --- although they're probably dying off). And, I'd say, too, that the ways and means of that defense may not be "conservatively done", i.e., Patriot Act, which is not conservative in the old, classic sense of it. It is a power grab, plain and simple; it may be one many "conservatives" think necessary, and that is a point I'm not arguing, but it is not conservative.

[Full Quiver]

Dolfan, I too would like to see an old dictionary. One that dates back to Thomas Jefferson's day would be very intriguing.

8. Strict adherence to the US Constitution as written.

To me this has to be first and foremost. All this talk about Constitutional Amendments is against our preset constitution in my opinion. We should not be for changing the constitution. Where do you think the IRS came from? We must trust that our forefathers got it right. If they were lead by God, as us conservatives say they were, then they got it right. We need to leave it alone and allow each state to constitute what it's citizens seem fit.

If we go to messing with the constitution then we leave room for liberals to do the same. We best be very careful and leave good enough alone.

[DaJudge]

Dolfan, I too would like to see an old dictionary. One that dates back to Thomas Jefferson's day would be very intriguing.

8. Strict adherence to the US Constitution as written.

To me this has to be first and foremost. All this talk about Constitutional Amendments is against our preset constitution in my opinion. We should not be for changing the constitution. Where do you think the IRS came from? We must trust that our forefathers got it right. If they were lead by God, as us conservatives say they were, then they got it right. We need to leave it alone and allow each state to constitute what it's citizens seem fit.

If we go to messing with the constitution then we leave room for liberals to do the same. We best be very careful and leave good enough alone.

I have no problem with changing the Constitution using the proscribed amendment procedures. What I have a problem with is activist liberal judges changing it by fiat with their rulings. I have a problem with them reading "rights" into the constitution that aren't there, such as the "right to privacy". I have a problem with them using the establishment clause to eliminate any showing of faith within the government. I have a problem with them using the commerce clause to justify the Federal government's encroachment on states' rights.

[DeWayneTN]

Pretty much ditto on what DaJudge said. Let me know when you're running for office and I will vote for you.

[Pastor Bill]

<WRONG THREAD, SORRY>

[DeWayneTN]

I would also just add that I think conservative leans more toward assigning responsibility for one's welfare to the individual while the other side believes more in corporate or environmental responsibility.

[DaJudge]

I would also just add that I think conservative leans more toward assigning responsibility for one's welfare to the individual while the other side believes more in corporate or environmental responsibility.

Very true. Newsflash to all of you people out there who are in Adjustable rate mortgages who now can't afford your mortgage payments:

ITS YOUR FAULT! YOU BOUGHT MORE HOUSE THAN YOU CAN AFFORD! IT'S NOT THE GOVERNMENT'S PLACE TO BALE YOU OUT OF YOUR IRRESPONSIBLE MISTAKE!

[dolfan]

I agree, wholeheartedly, but with one caveat: The lenders bear a huge part, too, and the government shouldn't bail them out, either. I closed a ton of ARM loans, and I can tell you that, to the person, I explained to the borrowers eye-to-eye that they were getting into something they didn't want. I didn't care that the lender didn't want me to do it, I did it. These brokers were making promises that were impossible to keep, and making statements that were patent lies about the nature of the loans to these largely ignorant (not excused, just a fact) borrowers. Of course, out of all of them I had only one who refused to close when they learned what they were truly signing. My closings take a minimum of 1 hour, and I've had some last 2.5 hours and I review everything with every borrower in detail. The bottom line is the lenders didn't care to push high volumes of products that everyone knew couldn't withstand over time, the brokers were making out like bandits, and the borrowers just wanted the money. They're all at fault, equally. None should be bailed out.

[DaJudge]

Dolfan, I agree that the lenders shouldn't be baled out either. They took the risk in lending to people who had to business getting into such large loans.

I don't agree, however, that the lenders swindled these people. It was all there in black and white when these people signed the loan documents. If you don't know the consequences of an ARM, do a freaking Google search. All the info is there on the net. People are just too lazy to do the grunt work and due diligence.

[MacUser]

You just can't get something for nothing. The payday comes.

[dolfan]

Dolfan, I agree that the lenders shouldn't be baled out either. They took the risk in lending to people who had to business getting into such large loans.

I don't agree, however, that the lenders swindled these people. It was all there in black and white when these people signed the loan documents. If you don't know the consequences of an ARM, do a freaking Google search. All the info is there on the net. People are just too lazy to do the grunt work and due diligence.

I don't contend that the lenders swindled, but brokers did. Lenders gave incentives to swindle, and I don't think it is good enough for them to say "hey, we didn't know....". Of course they did, it was their underwriters approving the loans for these severely credit and cash-strapped people with known and documented histories of defaults, etc. High yield spread premiums between the lenders and brokers were flowing freely, and volume was historically high --- there's simply no way the lenders didn't know what was going on. Plus, it was well known and covered in major news that these ARMs were bad news for people. I just don't buy that the lenders were somehow removed from the problem. They were driving the whole thing because from them came the money. They supplied the easy dough, and that dough helped drive demand which exploded housing costs. The appraisals on houses were (and still are) significantly higher than their real, substantive value. Equity appeared from nowhere, and was inevitably to return to whence it came. Now, with that, secondary lenders (like Bank of America and Countrywide -- aka "America's Wholesale Lender", its secondary lender moniker) are suddenly undersecured and facing insolvent balance sheets, and add to that the real story of defaults on these ARM loans, you've got a recipe for disaster. They all bear a share of blame, and you're right that they ought not be bailed out.

[DaJudge]

We agree that no one should be bailed. We agree that all parties bear a portion of the responsibility. I don't agree that it was a swindle though. To me, it's not a swindle when they give you the terms of the agreement in writing in black and white beforehand. That's not a swindle, it's just a negligent level of ignorance on the part of those who accepted such a bad deal.

[valley]

This is trippy, but here goes. In the United States a true conservative is a classical liberal. One name should really spring to life: Adam Smith. Thus, a true American conservative believes in individual freedom and the protection thereof. We believe in the divine rights of humanity, individual property rights, free markets, limited government, human rationality, personal responsiblity, and the protection of civil liberties. American conservatives and libertarians are somewhat akin. The major difference is that classic liberals understand that government must adapt where libertarians tend to be purist (If its good enough for Jefferson, it is good enough for me).