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[Dr. Ron]

All our ministries are operated by teams. We operate on the basis of relationships ....not elected or appointed offices.

So when a decision needs to be made concerning Children's church it is made by that team....with approval of the pastors mgt team.

When a decision needs to be made about sound or multi=media. that team makes the decision. We just built a new sound room and upgraded most of our equipement....all without a business conference or a single vote. NO one is upset ..and no one cares. They trust the team to do what is needed,..
but that is the key,,,,we do what we need to do,

There is no scriptural allowance for voting in the NT.

We vote only on the things the government requires us to vote on.....and then we never use the "roberts rules" methods.We vote with check books and feet.....but we don't create losers in the church....nor does anyone group control the church. We spread that around .....and the blame too...but I doubt what I have described would work in a denom. They like controversy!!!!

[Dr. Ron]

Yep Gary....spent my time in the halls booking revivals getting my calendar filled up!!!!

Loved it then...but then that was a different day.

[Pastor Gary]

Yep Gary....spent my time in the halls booking revivals getting my calendar filled up!!!!

Lots of folks spend time in the halls getting their calendar filled up.

Seriously: the last two Assemblies I spent huge amounts of time counseling troubled people, listening to the frustrations of people chafing under poor leadership, people looking for opportunities to minister where they can make a difference. It was time well spent, even if I missed a few parts of the official program.

[car50]

Yes and No, I never said conducting business was not the purpose, only that it is not the ONLY purpose, and I can't say it's the most important purpose since that business could be conducted many other ways that would be more inclusive than requiring a single location for an international organization. but there is alot to say for the fellowship and combined worship that occurs.

I know that business only takes a very limited amount of the assembly schedule. I understand that the fellowship, and other "perks" have their place. And over the past 40+ years I have spent my share of time in the halls.
Let me put my question another way.

What is the overwhelming purpose that justifies the millions of dollars that we as a church spend to put on the Assembly?

car50




]

[Pastor Bill]

My mind says it's more than one purpose, but one of the biggest purposes (at least in my mind) are the relationships, fellowship and camaraderie that can only be built face to face.

And while we are gathered, we engage in corporate worship, teaching & preaching as well as some business. Frankly the business side from what I have seen is not much more than a slow reflection of what God is already doing in local churches.

It will be interesting this year without some of the big controversial issues like D&RM or the 29 teachings on the agenda, I wonder how quiet and low the attendance will get.

[paul]

All our ministries are operated by teams. We operate on the basis of relationships ....not elected or appointed offices.

So when a decision needs to be made concerning Children's church it is made by that team....with approval of the pastors mgt team.

When a decision needs to be made about sound or multi=media. that team makes the decision. We just built a new sound room and upgraded most of our equipement....all without a business conference or a single vote. NO one is upset ..and no one cares. They trust the team to do what is needed,..
but that is the key,,,,we do what we need to do,

There is no scriptural allowance for voting in the NT.

I totally agree with you Dr. Ron.....Recently I shared with the congregation and pastor where I attend that the lord had spoken to me very clearly. That he was my pastor and that I was to submit myself and my ministry to his oversight. I did not have to call my board, we have a relationship and they know me and we have a trust in one another.

What good does it do me if I delegate someone into a position then have no trust in his decisions and always have to vote on it ? If you trust your leaders and have confidence in them, that they have integrity, hear God and are in relationship with them, you don't always have to have a say in every decision that is made.

[MrDanger]

If you trust your leaders and have confidence in them, that they have integrity, hear God and are in relationship with them, you don't always have to have a say in every decision that is made.

And there in lies the problem. Whether people want to say it "out loud" on here, that is the major issue. People don't trust their leadership for the most part. Nothing against anyone in position of authority, it's just the nature of how things have been for quite some time. You could have the most conservative leadership and half of the people (or more) wouldn't trust them or like what they do. You could have the most progressive leadership and half of the people (or more) wouldn't trust them or like what they do.

To me, that is more of a problem that needs to be addressed rather than what teaching we want changed.

[MacUser]

If you trust your leaders and have confidence in them, that they have integrity, hear God and are in relationship with them, you don't always have to have a say in every decision that is made.

And there in lies the problem. Whether people want to say it "out loud" on here, that is the major issue. People don't trust their leadership for the most part. Nothing against anyone in position of authority, it's just the nature of how things have been for quite some time. You could have the most conservative leadership and half of the people (or more) wouldn't trust them or like what they do. You could have the most progressive leadership and half of the people (or more) wouldn't trust them or like what they do.

To me, that is more of a problem that needs to be addressed rather than what teaching we want changed.

You said a mouthful. I dream of effective trusted ministries that operate under authority and can move past the distrust and become what they are designed to do. Work together to reach the lost.

[Pastor Bill]

I think it goes both ways, leaders have to trust those under them to fulfill the work, and those under need to trust the leaders for some general direction.

We cannot micromanage our ministries, on the international level or even in at the local church level. If you don't have leaders you can trust to do the work, you'll never grow beyond the 50-150 you can serve yourself (depending on bi-vocational or not).

A pastor must give general direction, cast the vision, and introduce concepts of ministry that will "herd the sheep" in the right direction, but to try to control everything and please everyone is like trying to swim up a waterfall, it ain't going to happen, and you'll drown trying.

If you have solid leaders you can trust, use them, and give them the freedom in their portion of the ministry to carry on above what you can do, if you don't that needs to be your priority is growing them (actually that needs to be a priority to grow more as well).

God didn't send us into the work alone.

[PastorDaniel]

All our ministries are operated by teams. We operate on the basis of relationships ....not elected or appointed offices.

So when a decision needs to be made concerning Children's church it is made by that team....with approval of the pastors mgt team.

When a decision needs to be made about sound or multi=media. that team makes the decision. We just built a new sound room and upgraded most of our equipement....all without a business conference or a single vote. NO one is upset ..and no one cares. They trust the team to do what is needed,..
but that is the key,,,,we do what we need to do,

There is no scriptural allowance for voting in the NT.

We vote only on the things the government requires us to vote on.....and then we never use the "roberts rules" methods.We vote with check books and feet.....but we don't create losers in the church....nor does anyone group control the church. We spread that around .....and the blame too...but I doubt what I have described would work in a denom. They like controversy!!!!

Actually, I believe that this can and is being done in denominal churches on local levels all over the place.

Our local COGOP operates very much like you described. We don't vote on "anything" unless it just has to be that way.

Our leaders are appointed just as I was appointed by my overseer and I trust them to lead their ministry and do what they need to do to get the job done just as my overseer trusts me to pastor my local church.

I do understand that "local" is the key word here...however, we don't vote on anything at the state level either. Leaders are appointed and decisions are made that need to be made to get the job done.

Actually, the "One Accord" and "Overwhelming Consensus" ideas at the assembly are very effective if operated in the right spirit.

But it's like someone said in a previous post...you'll never make everyone happy. Someone will always be upset that things didn't go their way. And I would guess that every form of government struggles with this.

I personally believe that organizations ands government are ordained of God....however, these organizations and governments are ran by people...so while the ideas and concepts are perfect, because they came from God, the application and operation is not perfect, because it is handled by imperfect people.

[Mat]

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[Pastor Bill]

Mat, you are seeing things completely different than I have seen, I have seen leadership moving away from the control they once held tightly, and leading.

As for pastors holding a closed door meeting about leadership, if that ain't happening in your local church, and the state level, and international level, I'd worry. Those in leadership need to meet confidentially to discuss and pray about those under their leadership. I'm meeting with my Associate Pastor tomorrow night to look at things and see where we are going. Then when we feel we are together on things and feeling God's leading, we will present those things to the church. I don't see a problem with this, in fact I would worry about leadership that wouldn't want to meet privately to seek God before leading.

[MrDanger]

I saw this scripture today and I thought it was funny considering some of the discussions about the International Assembly.

Acts 19: 32

"The assembly was in confusion: Some were shouting one thing, some another. Most of the people did not even know why they were there."

[paul]

I saw this scripture today and I thought it was funny considering some of the discussions about the International Assembly.

Acts 19: 32

"The assembly was in confusion: Some were shouting one thing, some another. Most of the people did not even know why they were there."

I guess some things really never do change

[EagerBeaver]

Note: If you check the General Assembly schedule you will see where all the real decision are made before the Pastors and members ever get there. Would the COGOP ever allow a Pastors only closed door meeting to discuss leadership?

I've wondered that myself every time I've ever looked at an Assembly program.