How much better off since last GA?

[Susie Hamilton]

My church went from runing 100 on Sunday morn to an interm pastor and went downhill to now loosing the building and meeting in a school. I think when changing pastors the church's needs need to be taken into consideration along with the new pastor.

[dawgs10]

My church went from runing 100 on Sunday morn to an interm pastor and went downhill to now loosing the building and meeting in a school. I think when changing pastors the church's needs need to be taken into consideration along with the new pastor.

or maybe we should not follow pastors and attended church because thats our church and we want to support it. not directed to you but those that have left.

[Pastor Gary]

or maybe we should not follow pastors and attended church because thats our church and we want to support it. not directed to you but those that have left.

People follow leaders... they follow people. It has always been so. To think that Pastors are little more than interchangeable cogs in a big machine simply ignores the reality of human nature.

The pattern of scriptural leadership is people following anointed leaders.

[Susie Hamilton]

I really do not understand your response. You do not know all the details.
My response to dawgs

[Susie Hamilton]

or maybe we should not follow pastors and attended church because thats our church and we want to support it. not directed to you but those that have left.

People follow leaders... they follow people. It has always been so. To think that Pastors are little more than interchangeable cogs in a big machine simply ignores the reality of human nature.

The pattern of scriptural leadership is people following anointed leaders.

I understand where you are coming from Pastor Gary. You are correct. That is why COGOP needs to rethink their pastoral changes.

[dawgs10]

I really do not understand your response. You do not know all the details.
My response to dawgs

let me try to explain. my church is my church. i love my church. my church is my family. when the overseer sends a pastor he is my pastor. i will pray for him and support him. thats all i meant and i was not directing it to you just using your quote for one of my soap boxes. i will not leave my church because of a pastor. and i will not follow a preacher to a new church. my church is my church. thats all i meant. most pastors would want to say that the church they are pastoring is so strong that if they left the next day it would not effect the church. you see where i am coming from.

[Pastor Gary]

I understand where you are coming from Pastor Gary. You are correct. That is why COGOP needs to rethink their pastoral changes.

In most places they already have. The fruit-basket-turnover of semi-annual pastor rotations has virtually ended. In all honesty, it was often the result of poor leadership -- it was a process of shuffling the few good pastors around to do damage control, and moving the bad ones before they completely decimated a local church. That system is unnecessary when the quality of leadership increases.

[DaJudge]

The pattern of scriptural leadership is people following anointed leaders.

I don't know Gary. That kind of stuff scares me. People can really get caught up with a charismatic person and it can become a cult of personality. Don't get me wrong. I want a strong pastor who has skills and has something to say. However, even if he's lousy, I'm not going anywhere. I go to my church because of the people there and the relationships I have with them, not because of the pastor who is there.

[dawgs10]

something tells me my opinion is out dated on this subject. untill i read dajudge and that means there is two of us.

[EagerBeaver]

Overseas the COGOP's growth is exploding numerically. I'd like to see how COGOP is faring in the US.

[Pastor Gary]

The pattern of scriptural leadership is people following anointed leaders.

I don't know Gary. That kind of stuff scares me. People can really get caught up with a charismatic person and it can become a cult of personality. Don't get me wrong. I want a strong pastor who has skills and has something to say. However, even if he's lousy, I'm not going anywhere. I go to my church because of the people there and the relationships I have with them, not because of the pastor who is there.

I understand. But read the Word... Moses, Joshua, Abraham, Peter, Paul... leaders lead, and people follow. In past decades people were completely loyal to a local church and stayed through thick and thin, but it is far less true today. They were also denominationally loyal -- also far less true today.

Now, people jump from church to church, even denomination to denomination, as their perceived needs change, and they seek out anointed, well-trained leadership.

[dawgs10]

The pattern of scriptural leadership is people following anointed leaders.

I don't know Gary. That kind of stuff scares me. People can really get caught up with a charismatic person and it can become a cult of personality. Don't get me wrong. I want a strong pastor who has skills and has something to say. However, even if he's lousy, I'm not going anywhere. I go to my church because of the people there and the relationships I have with them, not because of the pastor who is there.

I understand. But read the Word... Moses, Joshua, Abraham, Peter, Paul... leaders lead, and people follow. In past decades people were completely loyal to a local church and stayed through thick and thin, but it is far less true today. They were also denominationally loyal -- also far less true today.

Now, people jump from church to church, even denomination to denomination, as their perceived needs change, and they seek out anointed, well-trained leadership.

or slick talkers that tickel their ears and give little sound teaching.

[DaJudge]

Now, people jump from church to church, even denomination to denomination, as their perceived needs change, and they seek out anointed, well-trained leadership.

And I think that's a very negative thing. It's that whole, "what have you done for me lately" mentality. Don't look for things that YOU can do to make your church better, just hop around until you find the place that "meets your needs".

[Pastor Gary]

...or slick talkers that tickel their ears and give little sound teaching.

Dr. Ron's church is growing, and he is a sound teacher.
Paul's ministry is thriving, and he is a sound teacher.
My church is growing and I am a sound teacher.

No ear-tickling going on at all. I often hear that kind of stuff from people when their church is stagnant. (Not that YOURS is... making a general statement.) They assume that because another church is attracting people they must be watering down the message.

[Pastor Gary]

Now, people jump from church to church, even denomination to denomination, as their perceived needs change, and they seek out anointed, well-trained leadership.

And I think that's a very negative thing. It's that whole, "what have you done for me lately" mentality. Don't look for things that YOU can do to make your church better, just hop around until you find the place that "meets your needs".

Whether you or I like it is not the point: it is the reality in most places, and we can either sit in the corner bemoaning it, or beat the church hoppers at their own game by making our churches dynamic, vital, ministering, exciting places of God's habitation they will never want to leave.