Anybody read those reports?

Faith rider · Postby **Faith rider** » January 31st, 2008, 5:20 pm

[quote="free"]EB said:

[quote]Also I think GO needing 10% of each church's tithe is a bit much.[/quote]

Agreed...I have always felt that if we're going to send tithes away from the local church then it should be a 5%/5% split between the state office and the internation offices.

=D>

scooter · Postby **scooter** » January 31st, 2008, 5:24 pm

I make a motion that we send 10% to State/National and they send 10% of that to the international. :shock:

Ducking for cover now! :lol:

free · Postby **free** » January 31st, 2008, 5:43 pm

How long will we continue to take from those who have little?

I look at the Church of God in Christ...Their GO (Bishopp CE Blake) pastors one of their largest (if not the largetst) church they have in CA with close to 24,000 members and he is the GO of an organization of over 6 million people.

I still contend that our overseers, etc. should be pastors as well as fulfilling their other duties...Pastor Gary is doing it and seems to be successful! :wink:

Mat · Postby **Mat** » January 31st, 2008, 6:06 pm

removed

MrDanger · Postby **MrDanger** » January 31st, 2008, 6:21 pm

I have a problem with mandating tithing be on the gross not the net. To me, that is a personal decision. Spare me the arguements, I know them and have heard equally great for the net. It's just that once again we are getting into an area of legislating what should be the voice of God in an individuals life.

Postby **Pastor Gary** » January 31st, 2008, 6:27 pm

Mat wrote:The real issue to me is the "under" tithing minister section.

My essential hesitation is in codifying any form of "professional dues" which is what happens in this report proposal. As soon as you mandate that anyone MUST give X amount to some specified fund or face disciplinary consequences, you remove the "hilarious giving" teaching of the New Testament and set up something more akin to taxation.

I still maintain that the solution is not in more Assembly mandated reporting and tithing requirements, but in relational ministry. If any person in leadership saw a need, and had the means to meet that need, and trusted that the means would go to that need, they would not hesitate to do their part.

Cpt. Jack · Postby **Cpt. Jack** » February 1st, 2008, 8:03 am

Free said

I believe that IO will eventuall shut down due to lack of funds to pay salaries, etc...What does everyone else think?

Not in this life. You have had oxgen cut off to you brain if you believe this. IO will survive if nothing else does.

Cpt Jack

RamboPreacher · Postby **RamboPreacher** » February 1st, 2008, 8:15 am

scooter wrote:I make a motion that we send 10% to State/National and they send 10% of that to the international....

ding, ding... I think this is a more correct way to handle it.

dawgs10 · Postby **dawgs10** » February 1st, 2008, 12:01 pm

the early ninties we cut out alot of wasted jobs. the ones that lost their jobs in cleveland started their own churchs. anyone remember that!!!! i should scream the loudest about tithes going to cleveland. we are in a building project that will stop in the millions. the fact is growth takes care of everything at the local level. if you grow you dont worry so much about the 10% sent to IO.

justsam · Postby **justsam** » February 2nd, 2008, 7:42 am

If North American regional offices are in financial trouble, why doesn't our organization make a greater effort to select regional leaders (and regional leaders start selecting pastors) based on overall competence needed to turn the financial situation around in addition to ministerial qualities and in addition to good-ole-boy network factors?

Especially since the local church is going to be hung out to dry if it has financial difficulties. If you think I am making it up, I will be glad to forward you an e-mail I received when a piece of property our church owned was in foreclosure.

God Bless You- Sam Smith

Mat · Postby **Mat** » February 2nd, 2008, 8:35 am

removed

dawgs10 · Postby **dawgs10** » February 2nd, 2008, 11:19 am

pastorsam wrote:If North American regional offices are in financial trouble, why doesn't our organization make a greater effort to select regional leaders (and regional leaders start selecting pastors) based on overall competence needed to turn the financial situation around in addition to ministerial qualities and in addition to good-ole-boy network factors?

Especially since the local church is going to be hung out to dry if it has financial difficulties. If you think I am making it up, I will be glad to forward you an e-mail I received when a piece of property our church owned was in foreclosure.

God Bless You- Sam Smith

if you grow and have people at the local level giving than you dont worry so much about the 10% going to cleveland.(hello, is thing on.)

justsam · Postby **justsam** » February 2nd, 2008, 11:30 am

if you grow and have people at the local level giving than you dont worry so much about the 10% going to cleveland.(hello, is thing on.)

Did I say something about worrying about 10% going to Cleveland?

However, since you mentioned the company line answer to every problem when the local church is having problems and expects the "owners" to pick up the slack: if that answer is good enough for the local church, then why isn't it good enough for regional offices and Cleveland?

In other words, if North American Regions and General HQ are in financial trouble then why don't they just grow membership in their regions or in North America?

God Bless You- Sam Smith

dawgs10 · Postby **dawgs10** » February 2nd, 2008, 12:14 pm

pastorsam wrote:
if you grow and have people at the local level giving than you dont worry so much about the 10% going to cleveland.(hello, is thing on.)

Did I say something about worrying about 10% going to Cleveland?

However, since you mentioned the company line answer to every problem when the local church is having problems and expects the "owners" to pick up the slack: if that answer is good enough for the local church, then why isn't it good enough for regional offices and Cleveland?

In other words, if North American Regions and General HQ are in financial trouble then why don't they just grow membership in their regions or in North America?

God Bless You- Sam Smith

its not their job to grow local churchs. its our job. those of us on the local level. without vibrant local churchs we cant support a world wide church. we should work at growing our churchs and stop worrying about what is going on in cleveland. they are there to provide leadership(which we need) and resources. the issue is most local churchs dont use those resources as much as they once did. sunday school material,membership material. north american office put out a great dvd on membership that can be used in the local church. the issue is we want our cake and eat it to. we want leadership and resources but when we are asked to support it we start complaining. lots of churchs and pastors agreed to support tomlinson center. i wonder how many have sent the money. we all cried when they closed it but how many of us supported it to start with by the money we sent in.

justsam · Postby **justsam** » February 2nd, 2008, 6:18 pm

its not their job to grow local churchs.

And it's not the local churches job to bail out financially mismanaged North American regions. The rest of your comments have nothing to do with this discussion.

God Bless You- Sam Smith

Jude 2