Goin' Caucusin'!

[MacUser]

I support life. I support sanctity of marriage. I support morals.

I think you really believe you do.... but you have to VOTE that way before you can SAY you really support it. No choice is clear or easy.. but you have vote for the group that supports your core ideals and then lobby for change on the other issues. You can't do it in reverse with another party wanting to buy you off.

What I don't support is people trying to push those beliefs onto someone else by passing laws intended to create a moral standard for everyone.

This is huge what you just said. You again just said you DON'T support morals or a code of conduct. Democracy will fail when decided on sheer votes without a moral foundation or basis. Majority rule can be extremely wrong without a standard/moral compass. Don't let the opposition handicap away the most powerful weapon you/we have.

Why doesn't the church step up and do its job so we don't have to resort to the political arena?

Oh I understand.. but the political arena can limit US - restrain the Church/ freedom of speech to share the truth/Charge Hate Speech also. If we close our eyes and finger our ears on critical core issues and trade away our most powerful weapons for fake unrealistic peace / magic beans.

You're a very smart guy. Think!!

[DaJudge]

Simply because of his opposition to the Iraq war. It's not going to happen in the next presidency and maybe not even the one after this, but someone has to lay the groundwork to pull the troops out. We're blowing insane amounts of money over in Iraq. www.costofwar.com tells how much. We could use this to improve our own infrastructure and improve our own economy.

Plus I don't think any of the Dem candidates have their hands in the oil companies pockets like Bush or Dicky. In that regard alone, watch gas prices stabilize when a Dem gets elected.

Okay, from that, I take it that you think that the downturn in our economy is based on our government spending too much money, which you attribute to military spending.

Guess what? What we spend on the military and the war is MINISCULE compared to what we spend on entitlements. By the year 2030, the big 3 entitlements, Social Security, Medicare and Medicaid will eat up over 84 percent of the Federal Budget.

If you want to cut spending, that's where you have to start buddy. Entitlement reform.

BTW, do you really think that pulling out of Iraq will improve your economic outlook? It won't. Quite frankly the government will NEVER make you prosper Beav. If you want to prosper, do the following. 1) Finish you education. 2) Get a job 3) Spend less than you make 4) Save for the future, because people your and my age will never see dime of Social Security money.

Forget about having the government making you more prosperous. It won't happen. Just hope they stay out of your way and don't confiscate what you worked so hard to earn though taxes.

[Full Quiver]

WOW. I thought for sure the title of this thread was Goin' Caucasian . I figured it was like going postal.

[one love]

OK truth time.
1. dajudge i can honestly say I agree with so much of what you say politically, you have the basis down right. You are correct nobody knows what he says is going to change because that is al he says "we need change" sadly people jump all over it.

what does it mean to vote for obama?

1. higher taxes!!!! and hang up taxing the rich only. The bush tax cuts helped me. If you make over 50k a year it effects you as well. If you are over 100k or 200k it really effects you. Second on that point it is THE RICH THAT CREATES JOBS. So what happens when you tax someone 10 more million then before? The fire people, cut expenses to survive/ Insult the rich for there success but they do the hiring. I dont know many poor people that create jobs, sorry it is true.
I own a buisness and feel it would destroy us and I will have to let some go if the bush tax cuts go, not to mention other tax increases.

2. universal health care- or the attempt to do such a disasterous thing. Even the socialist of the world France is trying to change back. America has the best healthcare in the world. If you have universal healthcare you lose your freedom to choose when and where you want to go to the doctor. Do you really feel they can do better then the free market? I cant stand the new insurance we bought for us and my employees so guess what when this enrollement period ends I will CHOOSE not be FORCED to buy my insurance for our buisness elsewhere.
Not to mention it will be a huge strain on the economy especially those evil rich people that everyone seems to hate, which will do what? cause people to lose jobs. Why ? because they are successful.

3. deminish your ability to own guns.- you will see change that is for sure. Let me assure you the first step to removing our rights ot own guns is registration. Once you have to register your weapons and they decide to bann them, they will know everyone who owns one and you will be forced to turn it in. Look at washington DC, fisrt they made everyone register there guns then forced them to turn them in. Again ask Australia or even canada. SO you are right change......

4. Morals- yes moral will go down. Your ability to stand for what you feel is biblically correct will quickly diminish (as you said over time not instantly) to not being "politically correct" Any pulpit preaching against homosexuality will be considered hate speech. Again ask the nations you are following in the foot steps of. Why is it people want the greatest nation in the world to follow the footsteps of those that are jealous of our success?
You say morals do not bother you, I really hope you rethink that posistion and remember how easily our right are trampled on.

5. diminish our military - and that is a really bad thing. How could you think otherwise unless you really dont realize we are in a world that want us to be destroyed. Clinton could have stopped much f what has happened had he done anything the first time we were attacked in new york or the uss cole. He did go to war with kosovo so it was not a no war presidency.


The democratic party stands against christian principles and t think that will not effect you is not honest.

Bush has done good things. He brought our economy alive after 9-11 by his tax cuts.

PLEASE REALIZE CLINTON HAD A GOOD ECONOMY BECAUSE OF THE GREATEST BOOM IN TECHNOLOGY, THE DOT COM BOOM ETC. Notice the U.S. was going into recession before clinton left office

[oletimer]

just to get it off my chest;

Alternative fuel initiatives so we don't rely on so many cars, net neutrality so corporations aren't squelching the freedom of the internet. If we don't quit starting wars the American way of life will end through economic necessity anyway, so get used to change.

I’m glade you mention alternative fuels, using of grains to make fuel with had run the price of feed and food up considerable in cost and on the retail market. Meats and other grain related foods are much higher now.

Yellow Rose
I keep hearing how bad Bush has been and Obama is the answer because we are at war....umm, do those who throw that up forget that THEY came here and flew planes into our buildings and killed thousands of our people???? What part of that didn't justify going and kicking some butt to you?

Clinton could have stopped much f what has happened had he done anything the first time we were attacked in new york or the uss cole. He did go to war with kosovo so it was not a no war presidency.

AMAN !!

When it comes to moral issues, the government can pass whatever it wants to so to speak, it doesn't affect me. As long as their gay marriage, abortion, etc. are passed and I don't have to willfully partake in it, it doesn't affect me.

In which case I would rather vote for a Democrat who could somewhat get us economically back on our feet. Someone else's morals don't affect what I believe and I think the church is better off staying out of the political arena.

I support life. I support sanctity of marriage. I support morals. What I don't support is people trying to push those beliefs onto someone else by passing laws intended to create a moral standard for everyone

.

When they pass those laws then your hands WILL BE TIED. Their morels WILL BE CRAMED DOWN YOUR THOATH. All ready we are in danger when we preach against a gay life style being sinful.

PLEASE REALIZE CLINTON HAD A GOOD ECONOMY BECAUSE OF THE GREATEST BOOM IN TECHNOLOGY, THE DOT COM BOOM ETC. Notice the U.S. was going into recession before clinton left office

Funny thing, when Clinton was in office, not that I liked the guy or anything, but we were pretty stable economically from 93-01. (Another note about Clinton, people say "well he didn't do anything with our military." Uh...that's a good thing, right?)

Did you ever hear of a man call Ronald Ragan? Both old man Bush and Clinton lived off his program of trickle-down economic. Made Bill look good when he wasn’t lying about his morals.
BTW He cut strength of troops and funds weaking our defence.

Plus I don't think any of the Dem candidates have their hands in the oil companies pockets like Bush or Dicky. In that regard alone, watch gas prices stabilize when a Dem gets elected.

.The president does not make laws, it is done on the Hill (both House and Senate), then he signs or vetoes what is brought to him. It is the House’s responsibility to do something about gas prices. Want happen as long as they are bought off with lobbyists money.

Never seen a poor democratic politician. Most were richer then republican counter part. Also they promise you dollars while they take millions.

[crispfin]

The caucus experience was one of the worst organised things I've ever attended. 90 people packed into a tiny room with an extremely indifferent person in charge with everyone yelling and more than a few smelling--it was terrible. I've talked with a few who had much better experiences, but it was awful.

I was kinda interested to hear both from Karl Rove on Fox News and later on Laura Ingraham's show about the number of Republicans who voted for Hillary in a desperate attempt to have a candidate that could energize their base for their, politely speaking, less than exciting candidate. I don't know if that will turn out to be a smart idea if she rather than Obama should wind up getting the nomination. I guess we'll find out . . .

[DaJudge]

The caucus experience was one of the worst organised things I've ever attended. 90 people packed into a tiny room with an extremely indifferent person in charge with everyone yelling and more than a few smelling--it was terrible.

That's what happens when you hang out with Democrats.

[crispfin]

That's what happens when you hang out with Democrats.

Well I did meet some people that I wouldn't really have ran into in my everyday life, but it's good to see outside one's box.

[dolfan]

Change to what? Democratic capitalism with universal healthcare, among many others. Alternative fuel initiatives so we don't rely on so many cars, net neutrality so corporations aren't squelching the freedom of the internet. If we don't quit starting wars the American way of life will end through economic necessity anyway, so get used to change.

There's no such thing as "Democratic capitalism with universal health care." For one, the "demos" (people) won't have any capital left if there's government-paid or government-mandated universal care. "Alternative fuel initiatives" -- you mean ethanol? Great, food and grain are skyrocketing because of ethanol. The solution to our energy needs is an army of oil rigs in Alaska, California and Florida. Short of that, there is no alternative energy source available without prohibitive costs. We pay too much for energy now, and it is taxed too heavily. Oil is plentiful and we're sitting on top of a glut, but we won't let ourselves get to it. That 's insanity, and ALL of the candidates would continue the status quo. "Net neutrality" -- as long as corporations build the internet, they'll control it. It has always been only a matter of time, and Obama won't do diddly about it, nor will HRC or McCain. "Starting wars" is not the killer of our economic life; what we have is a government out of control with regulation and taxes and a citizenry of men as oversensitive crybabies whose greatest goal in life is not to achieve and pioneer and be rough but to be understood. Solve THAT last one, and you'll have your solution to all the others.

[one love]

Dolfan wrote:

." For one, the "demos" (people) won't have any capital left if there's government-paid or government-mandated universal care. "Alternative fuel initiatives" -- you mean ethanol? Great, food and grain are skyrocketing because of ethanol. The solution to our energy needs is an army of oil rigs in Alaska, California and Florida. Short of that, there is no alternative energy source available without prohibitive costs. We pay too much for energy now, and it is taxed too heavily. Oil is plentiful and we're sitting on top of a glut, but we won't let ourselves get to it. That 's insanity

very well put and very true. If america does not take care of this and get our own oil it will be the defeat of us. Why will someone not stand up with some back bone and move to drill in alaska? Even those in alaska want it to happen but we are going to listen to a bunch of socialist environmentalist tell us what to do because they can stand the fact that we are super power
We will have our downfall and it will be our own fault, then someone else will prob. drill for our own oil

[Pastor Gary]

Democratic capitalism with universal healthcare,...

Didn't I see a phrase like that in NewSpeak, in Orwell's 1984?

[Who new]

"Didn't I see a phrase like that in NewSpeak, in Orwell's 1984?"

I didn't get it from anywhere. I encapsulated it of my own accord for purposes of discussion. The system of insurance posited by the Democrats is capitalist because it relies on private industry rather than a centralized government to administer it. Neither Clinton nor Obama have advocated a centralized government plan based on a single payer. They've both proposed purchasing health insurance from businesses functioning apart from government. That's not only NOT socialism, it's capitalism in the extreme. It's a huge opportunity for insurance companies and any number of small businesses to capitalize on subsidiary administration of the thing. And not only that, it would make running a small business easier because it could possibly free them from the burden of paying for the insurance costs of their employees.

The reason Republicans resist universal healthcare is because it frees the individual from reliance on their jobs for health insurance. Big business and corporate fat-cats use employment benefits as a whip to drive productivity.

If you want parallels to '1984' maybe you should look to Guantanamo torture or Carl Rove's disinformation campaigns.

[soulsearcher]

"Starting wars" is not the killer of our economic life; what we have is a government out of control with regulation and taxes and a citizenry of men as oversensitive crybabies whose greatest goal in life is not to achieve and pioneer and be rough but to be understood. Solve THAT last one, and you'll have your solution to all the others.

Brilliant and right on observation.

[DeWayneTN]

The reason Republicans resist universal healthcare is because it frees the individual from reliance on their jobs for health insurance. Big business and corporate fat-cats use employment benefits as a whip to drive productivity.

Why is work and productivity a bad thing?

[Who new]

Are you fond of whips?