Royal college warns abortions can lead to mental illness
http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/life_a ... 559486.ece
Women may be at risk of mental health breakdowns if they have abortions, a medical royal college has warned. The Royal College of Psychiatrists says women should not be allowed to have an abortion until they are counselled on the possible risk to their mental health.
This overturns the consensus that has stood for decades that the risk to mental health of continuing with an unwanted pregnancy outweighs the risks of living with the possible regrets of having an abortion.
The controversy intensified earlier this year when an inquest in Cornwall heard that a talented artist hanged herself because she was overcome with grief after aborting her twins. Emma Beck, 30, left a note saying: “Living is hell for me. I should never have had an abortion. I see now I would have been a good mum. I want to be with my babies; they need me, no one else does.”
The college’s revised stance was welcomed by Nadine Dorries, a Conservative MP campaigning for a statutory cooling-off period: “For doctors to process a woman’s request for an abortion without providing the support, information and help women need at this time of crisis I regard almost as a form of abuse,” she said.
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Read some of the replies at the bottom also..
Study: Abortions can lead to mental illness
Moderators: Pastor Gary, The J2 Mod Squad
12 posts
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Pastor Bill
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Mat, that is ridiculous. We've had little to say about satanic rituals either, does that mean we agree with them?
It seems you are just looking for things to pick apart the CoGoP. We haven't had much discussion on it, because there's not much to discuss about it, we don't agree with it, and that's that. What gets discussed are matters that are up in the air (trying to find agreement on) or areas of improvement (like you listed about leadership etc.)
It seems you are just looking for things to pick apart the CoGoP. We haven't had much discussion on it, because there's not much to discuss about it, we don't agree with it, and that's that. What gets discussed are matters that are up in the air (trying to find agreement on) or areas of improvement (like you listed about leadership etc.)
"Why would God allow Hitler his chapter in history? Why would God send a whale to swallow Jonah or turn a woman into a pillar of salt? Surely there were other ways. But I'll leave the particular methods of God to God."
-Spoken by David Abraham, Showdown by Ted Dekker
-Spoken by David Abraham, Showdown by Ted Dekker
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Pastor Gary
- Kahu Gary, Benevolent Dictator
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COGOP
COGOP passed opposition to abortion in the early 80's, and that still stands, as far as I can tell.
Is there something more expected in order for us to be MORE officially anti-abortion?
Is there something more expected in order for us to be MORE officially anti-abortion?
"God is excited to show you mercy. He rises to give you His compassion." (Isaiah 30:18)
"For surely, O LORD, you bless the righteous; you surround them with your favor as with a shield." (Psalm 5:12)
"For surely, O LORD, you bless the righteous; you surround them with your favor as with a shield." (Psalm 5:12)
Re: COGOP
Pastor Gary wrote:COGOP passed opposition to abortion in the early 80's, and that still stands, as far as I can tell.
Is there something more expected in order for us to be MORE officially anti-abortion?
Maybe some would feel better if public hanging or burning at the stake would come to play?
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Pastor Bill
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Mat, you are correct there are not alot of CoGoP produced materials out there dealing with this particular issue, but that's true of most issues. The specific direction of a local church's ministry is being more and more left up to the local church. I don't see this as a bad thing, it gives a little more flexibility for local churches to address local issues abortion may be something your church needs resources on due to issues within the church or the community, whereas in my local church and local area this really isn't as pressing of an issue.
As for the Member walking the halls with the "29" and calling you out over members you have let in, it seems he has not been taught about the changes that have taken place in the last couple assemblies. I don't know if you were pastor there at those times, but regardless, it seems some open discussions about these issues are probably in order.
As for who chooses members, you as pastor are to follow the Assemblies guidelines for that, and yes it is up to the church, if there is someone who he feels (BY CURRENT ASSEMBLY RULINGS) should not be allowed membership, then you should give him the opportunity to bring that to you privately to discuss, and if his objections have real grounds based on our current membership requirements, then it can be brought up to the church, if not, you can show him that in the minutes, and ask him to submit to the Assembly's decision, and to you as pastor.
As for the Member walking the halls with the "29" and calling you out over members you have let in, it seems he has not been taught about the changes that have taken place in the last couple assemblies. I don't know if you were pastor there at those times, but regardless, it seems some open discussions about these issues are probably in order.
As for who chooses members, you as pastor are to follow the Assemblies guidelines for that, and yes it is up to the church, if there is someone who he feels (BY CURRENT ASSEMBLY RULINGS) should not be allowed membership, then you should give him the opportunity to bring that to you privately to discuss, and if his objections have real grounds based on our current membership requirements, then it can be brought up to the church, if not, you can show him that in the minutes, and ask him to submit to the Assembly's decision, and to you as pastor.
"Why would God allow Hitler his chapter in history? Why would God send a whale to swallow Jonah or turn a woman into a pillar of salt? Surely there were other ways. But I'll leave the particular methods of God to God."
-Spoken by David Abraham, Showdown by Ted Dekker
-Spoken by David Abraham, Showdown by Ted Dekker
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dolfan
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Mat, might I respectfully say that the longer you serve in the city the less you should think of the COGOP? I think, in maybe a roundabout way, you've gotten the point of what the leadership appears (to me, an outsider, now) to be encouraging. Local autonomy for local needs and ministry.
Most people who seek "statements of belief" are not uninitiated; they're shopping for someone who agrees with them and looking (most of the time) for points of difference rather than points of commonality. I've never said this before, but I don't know that I'd give one to just anyone who asks. A little information in the wrong hands is a dangerous thing for them. Should they make a decision on whether to be part of your church based on some printed punch list of essentials? Or, wouldn't it be a better idea for them to be answered with a kind "We're simply Christians. We believe Jesus and we follow Him" than with a "Statement of Beliefs." Show 'em what you believe. Sounds to me like you're doing a pretty decent job of it. I wouldn't worry about the printed version of it -- it's worthless anyway.
Imagine a groaning man about to enter eternity, in his deathbed: "I fondly recall the day Pastor Mat shook my hand and handed me an Important Bible Truths tract. That little cartoon bread and those 29 teachings changed my life." Laughable because it'll never happen. Even with old guard folks, when people die, you hear them talk about the kind of person they were to those around them. They know what we all know, that in the end, its the people that matter.
Top-heavy COGOP, bottom-heavy, hierarchical .... so, what? Do your thing where you are. You don't need their structure and they can't afford to give it to you -- it is a perfect match. And people who may rarely seek a "statement of beliefs" deserve more than that from a church as an answer to their questions; and, people who seek one on their first visit are probably, as someone here has said before, trying to answer questions no one's asking.
Most people who seek "statements of belief" are not uninitiated; they're shopping for someone who agrees with them and looking (most of the time) for points of difference rather than points of commonality. I've never said this before, but I don't know that I'd give one to just anyone who asks. A little information in the wrong hands is a dangerous thing for them. Should they make a decision on whether to be part of your church based on some printed punch list of essentials? Or, wouldn't it be a better idea for them to be answered with a kind "We're simply Christians. We believe Jesus and we follow Him" than with a "Statement of Beliefs." Show 'em what you believe. Sounds to me like you're doing a pretty decent job of it. I wouldn't worry about the printed version of it -- it's worthless anyway.
Imagine a groaning man about to enter eternity, in his deathbed: "I fondly recall the day Pastor Mat shook my hand and handed me an Important Bible Truths tract. That little cartoon bread and those 29 teachings changed my life." Laughable because it'll never happen. Even with old guard folks, when people die, you hear them talk about the kind of person they were to those around them. They know what we all know, that in the end, its the people that matter.
Top-heavy COGOP, bottom-heavy, hierarchical .... so, what? Do your thing where you are. You don't need their structure and they can't afford to give it to you -- it is a perfect match. And people who may rarely seek a "statement of beliefs" deserve more than that from a church as an answer to their questions; and, people who seek one on their first visit are probably, as someone here has said before, trying to answer questions no one's asking.
Human government bears the same relation to hell as the church bears to heaven. (David Lipscomb, On Civil Government, 72).
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Pastor Bill
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Mat, it sounds like you are doing a good work, but you are probably a minority in an organization where a large portion of our churches are small rural congregations.
On Abortion, it's not as big of an issue in rural areas, you probably deal with it much more than the majority of CoGoP pastors, if you feel more materials should be available, you may be more qualified to prepare those than anyone else, feel free to do that and share with the rest of us through this site, or through the International Offices.
On the name, most would agree, and we see the same thing, so we don't promote ourselves as "Waynesburg Church of God of Prophecy" which brings up all the issues you related, as well as a few that are familiar with the denomination's past, and shy away due to that. We are "New Life Church" and this is the route many in our organization (as well as other organizations) are doing to work around the problems, but without dropping the affiliation with the organization.
On the member wanting to have a say in those who are accepted as members, that's a part of our organization, I don't think it's a "formula for 'smallness'", but it is the structure of our church, each member has equal vote, I may not agree that is the best way, but it is the way it is. You do not and should not have to run new members by everyone else for approval, but if this member disagrees with your decision, you should give him the opportunity to speak with YOU about it, then if you feel he has legitimate claims, then it can go before the church, but as pastor, your decisions are not beyond question, and it's better to take this person's questions yourself than have him parading through your halls stirring up trouble. If he is uninformed, then inform him, then if he continues to try to cause dissent, then deal with HIM and the errors he is in.
On Abortion, it's not as big of an issue in rural areas, you probably deal with it much more than the majority of CoGoP pastors, if you feel more materials should be available, you may be more qualified to prepare those than anyone else, feel free to do that and share with the rest of us through this site, or through the International Offices.
On the name, most would agree, and we see the same thing, so we don't promote ourselves as "Waynesburg Church of God of Prophecy" which brings up all the issues you related, as well as a few that are familiar with the denomination's past, and shy away due to that. We are "New Life Church" and this is the route many in our organization (as well as other organizations) are doing to work around the problems, but without dropping the affiliation with the organization.
On the member wanting to have a say in those who are accepted as members, that's a part of our organization, I don't think it's a "formula for 'smallness'", but it is the structure of our church, each member has equal vote, I may not agree that is the best way, but it is the way it is. You do not and should not have to run new members by everyone else for approval, but if this member disagrees with your decision, you should give him the opportunity to speak with YOU about it, then if you feel he has legitimate claims, then it can go before the church, but as pastor, your decisions are not beyond question, and it's better to take this person's questions yourself than have him parading through your halls stirring up trouble. If he is uninformed, then inform him, then if he continues to try to cause dissent, then deal with HIM and the errors he is in.
"Why would God allow Hitler his chapter in history? Why would God send a whale to swallow Jonah or turn a woman into a pillar of salt? Surely there were other ways. But I'll leave the particular methods of God to God."
-Spoken by David Abraham, Showdown by Ted Dekker
-Spoken by David Abraham, Showdown by Ted Dekker
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Pastor Bill
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I'd disagree some on the statement of beliefs, but then I am came from outside the CoGoP, and look at that a little differently than "the 29".
"The 29" were WAY to detailed and legalistic, they also were too "churchy" even the items that were essential were worded in a way that only someone well studied scripturally would even understand them.
A simple statement of faith is a good thing, and can be evangelical (if worded well). Actually it would be more beneficial to give your purpose or mission statement for the local church, and a short description of Salvation as a statement of faith, and leave the more detailed information for those that are studying further.
"The 29" were WAY to detailed and legalistic, they also were too "churchy" even the items that were essential were worded in a way that only someone well studied scripturally would even understand them.
A simple statement of faith is a good thing, and can be evangelical (if worded well). Actually it would be more beneficial to give your purpose or mission statement for the local church, and a short description of Salvation as a statement of faith, and leave the more detailed information for those that are studying further.
"Why would God allow Hitler his chapter in history? Why would God send a whale to swallow Jonah or turn a woman into a pillar of salt? Surely there were other ways. But I'll leave the particular methods of God to God."
-Spoken by David Abraham, Showdown by Ted Dekker
-Spoken by David Abraham, Showdown by Ted Dekker
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