Five years in Iraq and no end in sight. Sigh.

[MacUser]

"Don't be used"??? I'm not being "used." I just happen to be a conservative who refuses to open my mouth when force fed the Republican Party's Kool-aid. (Same with the Democratic Party's as well.)

Our country is screwed until Bush gets out. Let's see what the next President has in store for us, oh joy

Ok. whatever you say. But be careful on whom you think is drinking what my misguided friend. You know that story about people whom point?

[scooter]

This might be a reason why. Possibly.

now this is the most important thing i have seen posted. Before Iraq we had no real strong way to enter in iran , Iraq was a place for us to be able to launch against anyone in the middle east if neccessary but it has placed us on each side of iran. Good post

Response: I have always looked at Iraq as a beach head. I could care less if they found no weapons of mass destruction. Saddam bluffed and we called his hand.

Now Iraq serves as a vaccum of sorts drawing every idiot jihadist in the land. The more we illiminate as a threat the better off we will be in the future. Now we have an excellent position to protect the middle east from the extremist such as Amidipajad. He has stated he wants to see Isreal wipped off the map. Pakistan also has nukes which could easily fall into the wrong hands. We need a continued presence in the middle east and I'm glad we have it for the worlds sake.

I wish there were more countries with that understanding.

[CantBCoy]

scooter wrote

Response: I have always looked at Iraq as a beach head. I could care less if they found no weapons of mass destruction. Saddam bluffed and we called his hand.

Now Iraq serves as a vaccum of sorts drawing every idiot jihadist in the land. The more we illiminate as a threat the better off we will be in the future. Now we have an excellent position to protect the middle east from the extremist such as Amidipajad. He has stated he wants to see Isreal wipped off the map. Pakistan also has nukes which could easily fall into the wrong hands. We need a continued presence in the middle east and I'm glad we have it for the worlds sake.

I wish there were more countries with that understanding.

I was getting ready to post much the same thing. I would add that not only do I wish more countries would have that understanding, but more americans. I feel that if we didn't have a presence in Iraq and Afghanistan the number of American civilian casualties in the US would be greater than the 4000 troops we've lost in the past 5 years.

[SBW]

This might be a reason why. Possibly.

now this is the most important thing i have seen posted. Before Iraq we had no real strong way to enter in iran , Iraq was a place for us to be able to launch against anyone in the middle east if neccessary but it has placed us on each side of iran. Good post

Response: I have always looked at Iraq as a beach head. I could care less if they found no weapons of mass destruction. Saddam bluffed and we called his hand.

Now Iraq serves as a vaccum of sorts drawing every idiot jihadist in the land. The more we illiminate as a threat the better off we will be in the future. Now we have an excellent position to protect the middle east from the extremist such as Amidipajad. He has stated he wants to see Isreal wipped off the map. Pakistan also has nukes which could easily fall into the wrong hands. We need a continued presence in the middle east and I'm glad we have it for the worlds sake.

I wish there were more countries with that understanding.

Great post. I had typed out a long rambling post trying to say the same thing. I never submitted it and now I am glad. You said it great in a couple of paragraphs.

Everybody needs to realize this. This is why were are there.

[DaJudge]

Chris, true peace is not the absence of war. It is the absence of evil.

We should do everything within our power to rid the world of the evil ones who would destroy us. Saddam was one such evil one.

I'm glad he's dead.

[EagerBeaver]

Every one of you with the "Saddam was a weapon of mass destruction, I'm glad he's dead now" viewpoint--

What would YOU have done post-Saddam to ensure Iraq would be better off now?

And how do you justify a continuing conflict in which we don't really have a defined mission, but still are losing soldiers, airmen, marines and sailors to it?

And since when is pre-emptive striking the right thing to do (Biblical examples don't count because it was definitely God speaking in that case).

[scooter]

And how do you justify a continuing conflict in which we don't really have a defined mission, but still are losing soldiers, airmen, marines and sailors to it?

And since when is pre-emptive striking the right thing to do (Biblical examples don't count because it was definitely God speaking in that case).

Response: And God doesn't speak now?

It is only in "opinions" that we do not have a defined mission.

Isn't the mission to attempt to have a democratic and free Iraq, is that not noble enough??

Passivist in the army, what's next sinners in the church? opps too late.

[EagerBeaver]

And how do you justify a continuing conflict in which we don't really have a defined mission, but still are losing soldiers, airmen, marines and sailors to it?

And since when is pre-emptive striking the right thing to do (Biblical examples don't count because it was definitely God speaking in that case).

Response: And God doesn't speak now?

It is only in "opinions" that we do not have a defined mission.

Isn't the mission to attempt to have a democratic and free Iraq, is that not noble enough??

Passivist in the army, what's next sinners in the church? opps too late.

Does democracy work for every country? Democracy does not equal freedom for people that have known a certain way for so long.

I honestly think it's bad theology to say that God would speak, tell you to get rid of Saddam and then not tell you what to do afterward. You'd also think God would give one the words to say afterward to show the people that was what He wanted done if that was the case.

[DaJudge]

Does democracy work for every country? Democracy does not equal freedom for people that have known a certain way for so long.

I think it would be condescending to say that democracy can't work in Iraq. Are you saying that they are too stupid or too inherently violent to make it work? Are they children that need to be ruled by a dictator because they don't have sense enough to elect their own leaders?

[scooter]

I honestly think it's bad theology to say that God would speak, tell you to get rid of Saddam and then not tell you what to do afterward. You'd also think God would give one the words to say afterward to show the people that was what He wanted done if that was the case.

Response: Not tell you what to do afterward??

I was under the impression that we have built one of the most costly military bases in the entire region over there. It sounds like a plan to stay. That is a plan although it is unpopular. Who could know exactly what would work after the deposing of Saddam?

If losing 10,000 troups meant the stability of the middle east history would look at it as a small cost. Watch and see.

The only thing is many people joined the army to get college money, get money period, or for a life change. Those are the individuals who cry about the president not knowing what he's doing yada yada yada.

[EagerBeaver]

Does democracy work for every country? Democracy does not equal freedom for people that have known a certain way for so long.

I think it would be condescending to say that democracy can't work in Iraq. Are you saying that they are too stupid or too inherently violent to make it work? Are they children that need to be ruled by a dictator because they don't have sense enough to elect their own leaders?

I wasn't going to that extreme by saying democracy doesn't work. I don't think they as a people are too inherently violent, but just look at the instability of the region as a whole and think of what would happen if democracy were to work with them. They'd become the scourge of their middle eastern brethren.

[Dr. Ron]

Eagerbeaver.

I want to begin by saying that I appreciate your service to our country. I am glad that you willingly obeyed your superior officers and went where they felt you were needed.

I won't take a long time to answer all your objections to the war. But you have bought the line "big time"/

I have just finished reading a book that I wish to recommend to all of you. It is called " Saddam's Secrets" by General Georges Sada. The general was Saddam's Vice Air Commander. He is a christian and his book will answer all your questions. He states that "one day America will build a monument to President Bush for having gone into Iraq". There were and are WMDS! Read the book to discover where they are.

Also, Brian Vandeventer was here in a conference for us. He is a missionary in that area of the world. He has spent the last 20 years there and he states emphatically that we not only should be there but we MUST remain there.

Given the history of military operations in the last 100 years, what is your hurry for us to leave? And may I submit , every last person in the military is a volunteer.

When my "special forces " member left Tuesday for a 2nd tour, he said "pastor, when I am in country , I feel that I am there to fight satanic forces on their own turf" He said " I can't believe that a true believer can't feel the spiritual warefare that is waging in that area of the world.

I take his word for it.....

Relax son....."and there shall be wars and rumors of wars" Either in Iraq or somewhere.

[Full Quiver]

"and there shall be wars and rumors of wars" Either in Iraq or somewhere.

Amen to that!


Eager, I do feel your sentiments. I thought about it when I was made aware it had been 5 years and what came to my mind was in less than 5 years back in the 1940's we decimated Germany, freed the continent of Europe from the Nazis, ran the Italians out of Africa, created the atomic bomb, kicked Imperial Japan's tail, freed the Pacific isles & the Chinese mainland, and the entire world knew why we did it and who America really was. Sure we are still in Japan today but at their beckon call (they want us there and pay big money for our presence). Sure we are still in Germany but not as peace keepers or defenders but as a convenient place for a hospital and base.


My cousin just returned from Afghanistan and says things are bad there and the half is not being reported. Due to security reasons and clearance he could not go into specifics but the US has dropped the ball in Afghanistan by taking the focus off that war and putting all our eggs into Iraq. In WW2 we fought on 3 fronts 1 of which was no where close to the others. Now we fight 2 fronts that are separated by one country and we are not accomplishing enough. These present enemies are no more fierce, determined, evil, crazy, or radical than the imperial Japanese or the Nazis. Remember that Germany committed genocide on a scale that the "terrorists" only dream of.

I agree about the political party kool-aid. Both parties offer their own flavor and I will tell you this from personal experience, kool-aid gives you heart-burn. You're better off just drinking water.


I do have a question though, Why is it that the extremists are flocking to Iraq to fight us? Notice that for the most part they were not in country when Hussein was the dictator; he wouldn't put up with that nonsense.

As for ask the Kurds.... ask the Turks about the Kurds and I'd bet they say they deserved the gas. The Kurds have terrorists too and they need to be dealt with.

Bottom line is that we need to understand that we cannot eradicate evil or evil people. If we as Christians can't go through a day without "sinning", as many believe, then heathens will certainly be heathens.

Am I saying all is lost, pull out??? NO WAY! What I am saying is put every available resource not both theaters, win the war, let the world see why we do what we do, and get out. What we are doing now is empowering the psyche of our enemies such as the Russians and the Chinese, real threats. They see that our leaders don't know anything about warfare or how to fight. I've been in my fair share of fights and can tell from experience that there are no rules and the one who fights with passion ALWAYS wins. The one looking to prove that he can kick the others tail usually goes home with a black eye and a hurt ego.