New NEW What Happened To

[EagerBeaver]

What happened to everyone I grew up with in the COGOP? Seems they all left around the college age mark.

[Gerald Creasy]

Zing!!!!...........STAB!

[dawgs10]

What happened to everyone I grew up with in the COGOP? Seems they all left around the college age mark.

dont know where your friends went but those that i grew up with are ministering in cogop, deacons, leaders so on.

[dawgs10]

i forgot about pastor daniel. he is the only backslider i know.

[DaJudge]

What happened to everyone I grew up with in the COGOP? Seems they all left around the college age mark.

Don't get snarky, now that you've left beav. You run the risk of becoming a bitter old man like Dr. Ron and Paul (before you blow a gasket, Dr. Ron, I'm kidding!)

[PastorDaniel]

i forgot about pastor daniel. he is the only backslider i know.

Takes one to know one.....if I was sinnin' you were there helpin'

[EagerBeaver]

What happened to everyone I grew up with in the COGOP? Seems they all left around the college age mark.

Don't get snarky, now that you've left beav. You run the risk of becoming a bitter old man like Dr. Ron and Paul (before you blow a gasket, Dr. Ron, I'm kidding!)

I've left for the time being but I know my time isn't done in the COGOP. I am actually still in the process of trying out churches, trying places out that can help me get my life back on track and I can get some good ministry training in the future, and hopefully come back to the COGOP armed and ready later on.

But I have seriously wondered why nearly everyone I attended camps with for years, etc. left when their time as a "youth" member was over. Those that didn't leave became leaders and some got burned out real quick, others have stayed and something has become of it...

...but the others who didn't stay were told to go "join the adult class." (I was one of them.)

I thank the Lord for every COGOP out there (and the number is increasing) that has a viable college/young adult ministry because I think COGOP as a whole is starting to somewhat recognize the need for a college/young professional ministry.

My honest question would be why for so many years has the COGOP ordained so many young people in ministry without proper training, and how come those that weren't "called" to the ministry weren't ministered to in a way relevant to them?

Disclaimer: My questions were not indicative of the reason I left the COGOP shortly ago. It was simply my time to go, so I went.

[EagerBeaver]

My honest question would be why for so many years has the COGOP ordained so many young people in ministry without proper training, and how come those that weren't "called" to the ministry weren't ministered to in a way relevant to them?

No conjectures?

Anyone, anyone?

[Pastor Gary]

My honest question would be why for so many years has the COGOP ordained so many young people in ministry without proper training, and how come those that weren't "called" to the ministry weren't ministered to in a way relevant to them?

No conjectures?

Anyone, anyone?

Kind of a catch-22 you have left us, buddy. We (leaders) get criticized for not empowering and releasing young ministers, causing them to give up in discouragement, and now, here, you seem to be criticizing us for exactly the opposite. Kind of hard to please anybody when the expectations keep changing.

My experience has been that a lot of young guys who are called to preach seem less than willing to pay their dues. You want to lead in my local church? Great. I'll see you 2 hours before each service when we are loading in gear, folding bulletins, making coffee and cleaning bathrooms; I will see you this Wednesday when we are hauling truckloads of rubbish to the dump... when I am up at 2:00 AM reading and studying to have somethings significant to preach next Sunday. I have a few --- a VERY few -- young men and women willing to do the grunt work, and some who just love the spotlight.

[RamboPreacher]

My honest question would be why for so many years has the COGOP ordained so many young people in ministry without proper training, and how come those that weren't "called" to the ministry weren't ministered to in a way relevant to them?

No conjectures?

Anyone, anyone?

Kind of a catch-22 you have left us, buddy. We (leaders) get criticized for not empowering and releasing young ministers, causing them to give up in discouragement, and now, here, you seem to be criticizing us for exactly the opposite. Kind of hard to please anybody when the expectations keep changing.

My experience has been that a lot of young guys who are called to preach seem less than willing to pay their dues. You want to lead in my local church? Great. I'll see you 2 hours before each service when we are loading in gear, folding bulletins, making coffee and cleaning bathrooms; I will see you this Wednesday when we are hauling truckloads of rubbish to the dump... when I am up at 2:00 AM reading and studying to have somethings significant to preach next Sunday. I have a few --- a VERY few -- young men and women willing to do the grunt work, and some who just love the spotlight.

I was going to reply, and then read your post and realized that I don't need to now.

with that said, I will reply to his previious comment/query...

...But I have seriously wondered why nearly everyone I attended camps with for years, etc. left when their time as a "youth" member was over. Those that didn't leave became leaders and some got burned out real quick, others have stayed and something has become of it...

...but the others who didn't stay were told to go "join the adult class." (I was one of them.)...

Warning - RP jumping up on the soap box and long post ahead...

This really irk's me. why? because there is a huge gap, at least in any of the COGOP's (and many other churches) I have been to, visited and participated.

Nursery ministries usually transition nicely to the Children's ministries, unless the nursery ministry is already part of the CM. either way, usually very nice transitions take place here.

Then from CM to "Youth" - this is a kind of gap, sometimes, but the transition can happen pretty okay, as the person transitioning is still forming opinions and directions in their life and their parents are still able to direct them and help them in this transition.

Some churches have two youth groups, depending on size, adn this can help, if there is a Jr. high group and a Sr. high group, that participate in some things together, but are taught separately and at different levels. Usually though, the "youth" is a large age-group, and as mentioned the transition may be difficult, but not unsurmountable.

The next transition is usually the most difficult and where things are allowed to make it available for the young adults to leave.

the transition from "youth" (usually ending at HS grad), is usually, as mentioned - okay - go to the adult class. yea, right! have any of you actually seen the adult classes? (I know you have, this is rhetorical, for you to put yourself in the POV of the HS grad).

The booooooooring, adult classes, with all the "old" peoples, and talk of retirement, and non-real, non-relational, non-relevant discussions (to the youth). Granted, they are not ALL like this, but from my experience, it probably not a minority.

Not only that, but depending on the youth classes, many times, the only real spiritual training came from the once or few times a year in camps. again, I am generalizing and not accusing. there may be talk of Biblical teaching, but does it get past the talk?

I hear the pastors, overseers and "adults" blame college and blame the fact that they get cars and jobs. and to a certain extent, those things play a part, but are not the cause.

it is at that age, that those things come into perspective. the youth are making decisions for them selves. they are young adults, adn are having more and more responsibilities placed on them that they may or may not be able to deal with.

College, cars and Jobs are now options that they didn't have before, they are maturing, and coming into their own understanding of who they are. and discovering for the first time (for many) what it is that they really believe, and they now have outside influences on this that they may not have had before.

they think (many times), that in fact, they know more than their parents do. This may or may not be the case, but it is an issue that must be dealt with so far as theological and biblical matters are concerned with their relationship with Christ. but how is it dealt with? "okay - you are too old now", go sit with the "boring", non-relevant, old people.

It's no wonder that their priorities are changed and having a job, car, and college begins to be more important over that. Are there churches that deal with this? most certainly, there are. but by enlarge, I think they are the exceptions, unfortunately.

Parents, Pastors, Bible teachers, Youth leaders - it's not the fault of the cars, or college. it's OUR fault. we don't seem to care enough for the young adults to actually provide for their transition from "youth" to "adult". It's my fault for not listening. It's my fault for blaming anything else, and not owning up to my responsibilities. It's my fault for not being an involved parent and actually having a desire to know what's going on in my "child's" life. It's my fault, EB, not theirs.

With that said, our local church, makes much effort for those youth to not just be dumped in the "adult class". I teach a "GAP" class. Graduates and professionals. a "theology" class that is designed to work with HS grads and up to teach them to understand what and why the believe what they do, not just telling them what to believe. Because the pastor or the CM or youth minister taught me, isn't good enough. these young adults want to know what and why for themselves, as they are making these life-choices.

Even if they don't know it, It is my opinion that this is what they need at this time. a transition within the transition. I believe this is especially important in the COGOP, and especially in these times when their parents may be "old-school" or "very conservative" when it comes to change. they don't want to hear all the complaining at home about church, adn why the church is going astray, or going into apostasy, etc. They NEED to be shown Biblical truths of why or why not. not just because that's how we have always done things.

[preaching, pauses, story inserted]
A young woman was cooking a chicken for her family for a meal. she cut the chicken in half, across the back of the chicken. and put the two parts in the pan for the oven.

her friend came over and was helping and asked her why she cut the chicken in half like that. hre response was that her mom taught her to do it that way. so they called the mother and asked her why she did that. the mother said that her mother taught her to cook it that way.

So they called the grandmother, and asked her. her response was that she had to because her oven and pan was too small to cook a whole chicken.
[end story]

why do we assume that when the children and youth are taught "Biblical truth", that they automatically understand the why's and wherefor's? do "we" even know them? do "we" even know what and why we believe the way we do? maybe we do know, maybe we just think we do.

sorry for the rambling (I didn't pre-prepare this, so it was off the top of my head and may not be orderly in read). I will step down now.

[DeWayneTN]

I think you've brought up a valid point, Eager, and I know it's been a subject that keeps coming up time and time again. I always kinda felt like for myself, my calling was to see who's getting left out and create some sort of connection for them. In my local church, it was young adult and then later, singles ministries. On a church wide level, it was brainstorming opportunities for young adults to connect at national events.

I've seen some local COGOPs turn their whole education ideas upside down trying to reach the college aged and still it's difficult. College is such a transitional time and besides some churches that are on the cutting edge, young adults are leaving churches -regardless of denomination - in droves.

I spoke to an author the other day who's written a book about why churches alienate men and specifically, he feels modern youth ministry, which stresses a concert-like atmosphere and long-winded speeches/sermons doesn't engage a lot of young men. But that may be a subject for a different thread.

[Alan]

I agree with PG, there are so many who live the Burger King lifestyle (I want it my way and I want it fast). So few are willing to put in the time to develop that vital relationship through prayer, fasting and study, much less put a little elbow grease and sweat into it.

I have to have something to do, if I'm not working I don't feel like I belong. When I first got saved I helped build a new sanctuary at the church, probably 80-90% of the construction was done by the members of our church and other nearby churches on Saturdays. I've just returned to that church and they're again in a building phase, this time a lot of the work was contracted out, but we're getting close to starting on the inside, and I can't wait to get in there and do my part. I don't mind cleaning the church, I don't mind doing my part.

I've had a thought on my heart for a couple of weeks now, God called us all to a work, he didn't call any of us to just be bench-warmers.

[Pastor Gary]

You asked a valid question, Beav, and now I would love to hear your take on this: in a perfect world, what would you like to see happen?

• Release young leaders to follow their vision?
• Tell them to wait until they are better trained?
• Give them a lot of guidance and parameters?
• Give them almost NO guidance and structure, because that forces them into a box?

No trick questions here -- I just get a bit confused, because I seem to hear all of these views argued, and it leaves me scratching my head as to what people want and expect. You can help: tell me/us your personal view.

[EagerBeaver]

You asked a valid question, Beav, and now I would love to hear your take on this: in a perfect world, what would you like to see happen?

• Release young leaders to follow their vision?
• Tell them to wait until they are better trained?
• Give them a lot of guidance and parameters?
• Give them almost NO guidance and structure, because that forces them into a box?

No trick questions here -- I just get a bit confused, because I seem to hear all of these views argued, and it leaves me scratching my head as to what people want and expect. You can help: tell me/us your personal view.

Sorry it took me so long to reply PG, I have been extremely busy all day and right now is the first opportunity I have to reply...

My solution is simple yet complex at the same timeon the local church. Local is where you're going to reach your people...people need to learn to be dedicated to their church and not an organization.

Secondly, a calling is not something that is just imparted to you during a cry-it-out altar session at youth camp. Instead it is something that I believe requires much counsel, much prayer and much study of the Word. Everyone has a calling, there's no doubt about that.

With that being said, we need to start training up our youth from the time they feel they have a calling upon their lives. Called to do music ministry? Let them play in the worship band to test it out. Called to youth ministry? Let them serve on a youth leadership team under the guidance of the youth pastor.

I think when people are first starting out and their calling from the Lord has been confirmed, they need a steadying hand on their shoulder. As they mature mentally and spiritually over time guidance is still needed but in more of an advisory capacity.

And finally every decision made must be based on prayer. If the leadership and those called to lead are in tune with the Holy Spirit, I believe God is going to set them forth allowing the church leadership to do the same.

All in all, I believe it's a gradual building up process that requires a lot of guidance and prayer.

Before I close I will share a program my old church, New Horizons Church in Washougal, WA (a COGOP church) had in the 90s under youth pastor Rainier Camina -- and they are re-instituting it under a different name now -- called Leadership Development Training. The church had come up with a course for all youth and young adults who were wishing to serve the church in some capacity. The course depended on a curriculum of Bible studies and also COGOP polity studies as they applied to the local church. I thought the program was ahead of its time but well planned out and a lot of people benefited from it. Some of those who did the LDT are serving in leadership at that church today.

My heart is to see the youth of the COGOP stay in the church, receive formal training and become well-trained, educated and powerful ministers for Christ to continue to make a positive impact on their peers, churches and communities.

[Pastor Gary]

With that being said, we need to start training up our youth from the time they feel they have a calling upon their lives. Called to do music ministry? Let them play in the worship band to test it out. Called to youth ministry? Let them serve on a youth leadership team under the guidance of the youth pastor.

Well, so far, so good. (WHEW!) When Tori was 16 she formed her first worship band, and we immediately put them up front of the main church service. Best way to get experienced is to experience the real deal.

Currently we have added a 16 year old lead guitarist, and he rocks.

I think when people are first starting out and their calling from the Lord has been confirmed, they need a steadying hand on their shoulder. As they mature mentally and spiritually over time guidance is still needed but in more of an advisory capacity.

2 for 2. Certainly trying to do that one right, also.

I appreciate your input.