are these the same

Full Quiver · Postby **Full Quiver** » April 8th, 2008, 12:39 pm

Phil. 2:6 who, though he was in the form of God, did not count equality with God a thing to be grasped, ESV

Php 2:6 Who, being in the form of God, thought it not robbery to be equal with God:
(KJV)

Do these verses say the same thing? If not, which is correct?

paul · Postby **paul** » April 8th, 2008, 12:51 pm

Full Quiver wrote:Phil. 2:6 who, though he was in the form of God, did not count equality with God a thing to be grasped, ESV

Php 2:6 Who, being in the form of God, thought it not robbery to be equal with God:
(KJV)

Do these verses say the same thing? If not, which is correct?

although I think they are saying the same...... ESV having Paul say, I don't think the fact that Jesus is equal with God could be grasped.

Whereas the standard version would state plainily that Christ being equal with God does not take from God being any lesser than God.

the first could be more easily misunderstood than the latter....IMHO. but it is important that one does not misunderstan the verse, because the Christian faith hindges on the fact that John 1:1, Jesus was and is God, the second person in the trinity.

Full Quiver · Postby **Full Quiver** » April 9th, 2008, 5:28 pm

To me they say opposite things.

rough_rider · Postby **rough_rider** » April 9th, 2008, 6:55 pm

(ISV)-Php 2:6 In God's own form existed he, And shared with God equality, Deemed nothing needed grasping.

(GWV)-Php 2:6 Although he was in the form of God and equal with God, he did not take advantage of this equality.

(ALT)-Php 2:6 who existing in the nature of God, did not consider being equal to God something to be held onto,

Pastor Bill · Postby **Pastor Bill** » April 10th, 2008, 3:21 am

I see them as saying the same thing, but I think the more modern translation seems a little harder to understand.

It's the "grasped" part that throws things off, on first reading, it's easy to see that as a synonym for "obtained", which would give a contradictory meaning, but put it with the concept of robbery, taken, stolen, gained, and it makes more sense.

RamboPreacher · Postby **RamboPreacher** » April 10th, 2008, 3:44 am

Pastor Bill wrote:I see them as saying the same thing, but I think the more modern translation seems a little harder to understand.

It's the "grasped" part that throws things off, on first reading, it's easy to see that as a synonym for "obtained", which would give a contradictory meaning, but put it with the concept of robbery, taken, stolen, gained, and it makes more sense.

well said, PB. also the sentence diagramming of Greek is not the same as English, and the Greek grammar here is interesting.

a direct translation (keeping in mind each word may actually have much fuller meanings) might be: who (,) in (the)form of God subsisting(,) esteemed it not rapine (insert an untranslated definite article here) to be equal with God.

Jude 2