shout

[Pastor Gary]

what was your implication or point then? why state that Ron would agree with you?

Okay... Danny... dear Danny...

For perhaps the first time in your life you are part of a healthy, balanced, Biblically-centered church. You have a Pastor who has walked the road ahead of where you are going, and if you stick around, you have tremendous potential. I was merely suggesting that you might weigh the fact that some of us gray-templed elders have come to a different conclusion than you, and it might be worth your consideration, as one who is learning to be teachable.

[pastorables]

(In my Ross Perot voice) Can I say something?

Being balanced in our spiritual walk with God has nothing to do with "too much education" or "quenching the Spirit".

Let me share one of many true stories from the memoirs of my ministry.

While serving one particular church, I had two visitors on a given Sunday. We will call them Tom and Jack for reference only. To my knowledge, it was the first time either had been to our service under my leadership. One visitor (Tom) sat directly behind the other (Jack), but they were not together. During the worship, Tom stood and began to jerk, shout, and speak in tongues in a loud way. Keep in mind that he was standing directly behind Jack. After a few minutes of this, Jack got up and left the service to never return as long as I served as the pastor. I believe Tom may have visited one other time.

I share this story to give a pastor's perspective on what took place. I personally feel that Jack needed to hear God's word, but before he had the opportunity, he was scared away by Tom's taking liberty in the Spirit. Is it wrong to shout? No. Is it wrong to speak in tongues? No. Is it wrong to do it at a time when someone who is unlearned can judge it as barbaric and take offense? Absolutely, and the Bible states as much. Tom meant no harm whatsoever in taking his liberty to worship God in a way that edified himself, however, it did not bring edification to the body. To the contrary, it caused Jack to leave and never return to hear the word of God. The Bible states to us that faith cometh by hearing, and hearing by the word of God.

Which is more important to you in church? Liberty to shout? or God's word?

Think upon these things.

Sincerely,
pa

[soulsearcher]

(In my Ross Perot voice) Can I say something?

Being balanced in our spiritual walk with God has nothing to do with "too much education" or "quenching the Spirit".

Let me share one of many true stories from the memoirs of my ministry.

While serving one particular church, I had two visitors on a given Sunday. We will call them Tom and Jack for reference only. To my knowledge, it was the first time either had been to our service under my leadership. One visitor (Tom) sat directly behind the other (Jack), but they were not together. During the worship, Tom stood and began to jerk, shout, and speak in tongues in a loud way. Keep in mind that he was standing directly behind Jack. After a few minutes of this, Jack got up and left the service to never return as long as I served as the pastor. I believe Tom may have visited one other time.

I share this story to give a pastor's perspective on what took place. I personally feel that Jack needed to hear God's word, but before he had the opportunity, he was scared away by Tom's taking liberty in the Spirit. Is it wrong to shout? No. Is it wrong to speak in tongues? No. Is it wrong to do it at a time when someone who is unlearned can judge it as barbaric and take offense? Absolutely, and the Bible states as much. Tom meant no harm whatsoever in taking his liberty to worship God in a way that edified himself, however, it did not bring edification to the body. To the contrary, it caused Jack to leave and never return to hear the word of God. The Bible states to us that faith cometh by hearing, and hearing by the word of God.

Which is more important to you in church? Liberty to shout? or God's word?

Think upon these things.

Sincerely,
pa

Whoop! Whoop! That ALMOST makes me want to run around the building.

[Shellie]

pastorables said:

Tom meant no harm whatsoever in taking his liberty to worship God in a way that edified himself, however, it did not bring edification to the body. To the contrary, it caused Jack to leave and never return to hear the word of God. The Bible states to us that faith cometh by hearing, and hearing by the word of God.

So, we could actually say that the devil used Tom to keep Jack?

Oh wait, the devil speaking in tongues is another topic.

[Pastor Bill]

As it has been stated here, this is OUR reaction to HIS Spirit, and in that I don't feel that these actions are wrong, have done many myself, both in the church and at home, but the key here is relationship, and purpose.

In my relationship with my wife, I react differently when I see her at different times, when we are alone, when we are in public, when we are in church, or among family. there are also different things in our relationship that cause us to interact differently, we can celebrate together, we can be intimate, we can have in depth discussions, we can just be plain goofy and silly. All of these are part of our relationship.

With God my relationship is the same, but often we focus so much on one aspect of our relationship that we drown out the others. There are times to shout and get excited, people do this at ball games, in celebration, excitement, that's all great, within the relationship.

But if everytime I saw my wife pushed for the same reaction, our relationship would be stunted, other purposes of our lives would be thwarted and I would ruin the relationship, BUT we do this with God. There are times that we can get excited and shout in response to His Spirit, I love it, but if that's all we've got, or if that's all we seek, we've missed the real relationship with Him that we need, and the purposes and works he has for us are getting overrun by a fleshly drive for that specific interaction.

Paul was specific on this in I Corinthians 12-14, and I have seen so many people focus on one part of that or another either to deny the gifts, or promote them over everything, but while he encouraged these manifestations, he also admonished to seek God's purpose, to seek "the best" to seek the work and edification of more than just yourself (although he did seem to recognize that importance as well).

I agree with Paul, I'm glad I speak in tongues more than you all, BUT I'd rather minister as God leads, giving His Word to those that need to hear when that opportunity arises, and be blessed and edified by the "shout" when there isn't other work to be done.

[soulsearcher]

pastorables said:

Tom meant no harm whatsoever in taking his liberty to worship God in a way that edified himself, however, it did not bring edification to the body. To the contrary, it caused Jack to leave and never return to hear the word of God. The Bible states to us that faith cometh by hearing, and hearing by the word of God.

So, we could actually say that the devil used Tom to keep Jack?

Oh wait, the devil speaking in tongues is another topic.

Shellie, you've always got that can opener in hand, don't you, sis?

[Shellie]

soulsearcher wrote:

Shellie, you've always got that can opener in hand, don't you, sis?

It is but a lot in life that I must bear.

[KBevangelist]

Those that were baptized with the Holy Ghost on the day of Pentecost seemed to be drunk. I have no doubt that they "shouted".

I have never seen a drunk person "shout." Ever.

i have seen them speak in tongues. maybe not God given tongues but it was some kind of tongue.

we call that a "vowel movement".

You know I just needed that laugh this morning.

Thanks Rambo

KB

[Ilovebigcats]

(In my Ross Perot voice) Can I say something?

So as the pastor if you had stopped Tom he might have said in his Ross Perot voice, Can I finish? CaCaCan I finish?

[Full Quiver]

I can honestly say that I have more integrity and think more highly of myself to PURPOSELY "shout" in some of the ways that I have before. I would never draw attention to myself in such a way because I would find it embarrassing. Some of you guys may have faked it but I don't.

Pastor Ables, thanks for the story but can that be used as an absolute?

allow me to share a story. While pastoring the Sanctuary I had some new folks attending regularly. One was anti-church and even into some witchcraft and idolatry type stuff. Another had only experienced the Mormon and Jehovah's Witness faith before. One Sunday I felt impressed to preach on Christ as our Risen Saviour. In fact it was when that Hollywood type said they had found the remains of Jesus and His family. Normally as a pastor I found myself as more of a teacher, quiet, calm, and just teaching. This particular Sunday I was really feeling inspired and impressed and at the end of the sermon I called for prayer and the Spirit moved into our congregation mightily and I "shouted" as did some others, their were tongues, and obvious signs of God's presence. No one left, no one ran off, but all wept.

I will not judge your experience but if your example is to thwart all such activity in church then my story is to encourage it. There is enough nonsense that goes on in most ALL churches that should be done away with than to let a twitch, a jerk, and a shiver bring condemnation. Believe me that I have seen people in themselves and they should have been dealt with but when we decide that the Spirit can not move in the congregation then we have disallowed Christ to be the head of His church.

[Susie Hamilton]

In the 70's in Ky during a revival I saw a big move of God that I had never seen before nor since. A lady was playing piano and she and another lady were singing a special song. During this song, God moved on the piano player and she began playing in the spirit. The piano sounded like pianos and harps, it was beautiful. Her hands were moving so fast it was hard to see them move. The other lady began singing in tongues. It was so beautiful. This happened a few times during the revival. What happened as a result? A church with attendance of about 30-40 grew to attendance of over 100 in a few weeks. Attendance at the revival meeting grew as people came to see God moving in this manner. Jinjer knows one of the ladies.

[pastorables]

I can honestly say that I have more integrity and think more highly of myself to PURPOSELY "shout" in some of the ways that I have before. I would never draw attention to myself in such a way because I would find it embarrassing. Some of you guys may have faked it but I don't.

Pastor Ables, thanks for the story but can that be used as an absolute?

allow me to share a story. While pastoring the Sanctuary I had some new folks attending regularly. One was anti-church and even into some witchcraft and idolatry type stuff. Another had only experienced the Mormon and Jehovah's Witness faith before. One Sunday I felt impressed to preach on Christ as our Risen Saviour. In fact it was when that Hollywood type said they had found the remains of Jesus and His family. Normally as a pastor I found myself as more of a teacher, quiet, calm, and just teaching. This particular Sunday I was really feeling inspired and impressed and at the end of the sermon I called for prayer and the Spirit moved into our congregation mightily and I "shouted" as did some others, their were tongues, and obvious signs of God's presence. No one left, no one ran off, but all wept.

I will not judge your experience but if your example is to thwart all such activity in church then my story is to encourage it. There is enough nonsense that goes on in most ALL churches that should be done away with than to let a twitch, a jerk, and a shiver bring condemnation. Believe me that I have seen people in themselves and they should have been dealt with but when we decide that the Spirit can not move in the congregation then we have disallowed Christ to be the head of His church.

Honestly, I have no agenda. I only desire God's truth. Your example and my example are totally different. I didn't get to preach, you did. This young man (Jack, possibly not even a Christian) was hindered from hearing God's word by a professing Christian who decided to take their liberty during the worship time.

I understand that it is a fine line. As pastor, I could have offended the other visitor (Tom), as well as other Christians, if I would have called order.

Nevertheless, I see guidelines in God's word that warn us about taking liberties that offend others, including the operation of tongues in the church. The Bible clearly states that we can be labeled barbaric when we do so. As one of pentecostal heritage, it's often a challenge to accept the truth concerning tongues in the church. Let us consider others above ourselves. This should be the greater blessing.

Sincerely,
pa

[Shepherd]

I don't care how high you jump just so you walk straight when your feet hit the ground.

It's not a shout all the way, but a shout all along the way.

In the book of Revelation when they sing the song of Moses, I like to think they may join Miriam in a little jig.

[Ilovebigcats]

Cedar Ridge's version of Shout. Dr Ron done started a hanky wave!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KoacymtAKl0





DISCLAIMER!: We had no intention of being disrespectful. It was actually pretty good and funny. We enjoyed ourselves. You can hear Ron at the end say "the natives are restless tonight." BTW Barkey (the guy on the mic) is ALWAYS like that!!! This was during praise and worship practice. If the hanky comes out Sunday... well... that will be another video!

[Chosen_Generation]

heehe Wen.. i'm gonna have to come sneak into cedar ridge next time i'm in the area hahaahah