background check

[TC]

I am all for it, but I think before start with camps, Lets start with all of the GO, General Appointees, State Overseers, Dist Overseers, Pastors, Local Church Officers, Local youth leaders, sunday school teachers.

I have a feeling that we would have alot of people that could not handle a look into their finances, personal records dumb moves they have made with their money as well as others money.

The problem is what if they have no record because they have never been caught? or they have not done anyting yet because someone else had that job. Now they will be out and someone who has never had any problems we know of will be put in a postion to get a record.

[pastorables]

They ask for SS# and Drivers license number. no banking info asked for. read the form.

Billy,

I just read the fine print. The form does authorize a credit report in the details. This is the part that is being questioned, not the criminal check.

pa

[Full Quiver]

My remarks about the credit check were based on Penny's post.

What happens if the insurance company does not approve of the 200 applicant's backgrounds?

Read KB post. We will get a YES OR NO. Period. no details. from background company. Not insurance company.

So what if the 200 folks don't pass the background check? If you need 200 VOLUNTEERS and 50 or more are not approved then what? Notice the emphasis on volunteer.

Also so what if the criminal check reveals a criminal past but the person has been "saved" since then? I'm sure the secular company reporting to the insurance company is looking at things from a secular view point and not a perspective that says as far as the East is from the West, where our forgiven sins are. We all have heard of a certain groups problem with their current leader. The truth only surfaced because he was selected for his position but the sin took place many years ago. I'd guess he would not gain clearance through this system and would be DENIED by the insurance company yet the Church would say if God has forgiven him then so have we.

Do secular checks jive with Christian ethics?

[RamboPreacher]

FQ - do you propose an option, or just complain of the challenges of living in a fallen world?

[Full Quiver]

Is that your only answer RP? I am surprised seeing is that you always have a typed response to send to HQ and for committees because you have the answer.

For decades CoGoP camps have been staffed by volunteers and now suddenly an insurance company is requiring that all sorts of hoops be jumped through. Believe me when I say that we should watch for perverts but what does Penny's personal finances have to do with it?

A great thought was posed by another within this thread; why not have CoGoP officials and leadership do this same thing?

[RamboPreacher]

...why not have CoGoP officials and leadership do this same thing?

they (pastors and leadership) are supposed to be going through background checks (it may be "optional", but highly "suggested", as I understand). or were you saying they should be the ones doing the checking?

and did you read my reply to the OP? i suggested that she only agree to the ones that she felt was necessary for the ministry and accountability that she would have for the children in her care. (or something like that - hehehehe)

[Full Quiver]

Has each pastor and overseer been checked in this fashion or are they still being appointed the old fashion way?

[Pastor Gary]

Has each pastor and overseer been checked in this fashion or are they still being appointed the old fashion way?

In the case of Overseers, it is likely that MOST of them are pretty known by the Presbyter who appoints them, but I have no problem with background checks.

[dolfan]

Penny, to answer your question to me --- it might get processed without regard to your marking out the financial snooping parts. Proceed at your own risk.

Verbal assurances that "we won't do that" are meaningless. Not that the integrity of the people collecting the forms is lacking, but YOU don't know if it isn't, and that's the problem with verbal assurances vs. written permissions that contradict them. If that was a reliable way of doing business, there would be many fewer lawsuits.

[Billy n NC]

Pastorables, you are correct . the Form does give/authorize a credit report. But as I stated before, this form is from an independent company providing these kind of services to organizations. It is a broad release form.

Full Q, If we get thumbs down/NO from 50 (out of 200) of our camping ministry volunteers, Great Catch.. It will be handled on a case by case basis.

I like Pastor Gary, have no problem with background checks. It has become one of those necessary evils when working with children in todays world. FullQ asked does secular check jive with Christian ethics? you betcha. If parents bring there children to our facilities for 1 hour on Sunday AM or for a week of camp, we sure better have our act together. And something was to happen, We sure should be able to prove our due diligence.

As far as having HQ's officials, State overseers etc. all I have to say is Oh Brother. This Post has nothing to do with dealing with HQ's staff. some people like to pic a scab to an infection just to see it ooze.. Good Grief

Penny's post said.

Why does the camp need to do a credit report?

(they dont Penny, The will not be doing a credit report. They have contracted this company to do a background check ($10 bucks worth per individual) You will not get much info for that.

What is this other reports as deemed necessary by the COGOP?

If the $10 report shows irregularity. Then the company could do a more indepth report (for additonal $$$) at the request of camp committee.

Why do they need an employment history? Why do they need to know where I have worked.

(They dont, There not asking that. Again the form is a generic, broadly stated permission slip)

And motor vehicles records? I am not taking the kids any where why is this needed?

(They dont, There not asking that. Again the form is a generic, broadly stated permission slip)But if someone has a bunch of DUI's etc in there past. They may need to know this.

Who all is going to get this information?

The company that has been contracted will get the information. They will give state camp staff a REPORT. Yes(problems / past criminal activity etc) or NO nothing to worry with. At that time if there is a NO then the person will be contacted and given time to explain etc.

Oh and Penny, I am not guessing on this.

[jinjer]

Billy, I like PG and others have no problems with background checks. However, the excuse that this is a generic form doesn't fly. Whatever you sign is what CAN be done. Like I stated before, we experienced this first hand. At first, the company hired by our previous church, verbally stated that what was on the form was just generic. It stated that they would not be held responsible nor anyone in their employee, if the information was stolen, sold etc. Our pastoral staff took their word for it, others in the congregation did not. Upon further questioning it was true that they were releasing themselves from any liability. Since Dolfan is an attorney, I would take his word or legal opinion over the committee. Proceed with caution. Again, I am all for background checks.

Jinjer

[Penny]

Why does the camp need to do a credit report?

(they dont Penny, The will not be doing a credit report. They have contracted this company to do a background check ($10 bucks worth per individual) You will not get much info for that.

Billy With the paper they CAN do one, I am going on what this paper is telling me.

Why do they need an employment history? Why do they need to know where I have worked.

(They dont, There not asking that. Again the form is a generic, broadly stated permission slip)

Then they need to make up a form just for us and tell us what they will be doing.

And motor vehicles records? I am not taking the kids any where why is this needed?

(They dont, There not asking that. Again the form is a generic, broadly stated permission slip)But if someone has a bunch of DUI's etc in there past. They may need to know this.

If a person is not driving the kids anywhere, why is this even "maybe" needed. And if a person has DUI and they got saved snice then, as stated on this post all ready what happens to them.

Who all is going to get this information?

The company that has been contracted will get the information. They will give state camp staff a REPORT. Yes(problems / past criminal activity etc) or NO nothing to worry with. At that time if there is a NO then the person will be contacted and given time to explain etc.

Oh and Penny, I am not guessing on this.

Then tell me why the form is not read that way. When I first got the form I read it and thought.. Interesting..

The way I am reading this paper they CAN CHECK this other stuff if they want to. I do not know what they are checking.. other than what this paper tells me they are/can check.

Who all is going to get this information?

The company that has been contracted will get the information. They will give state camp staff a REPORT. Yes(problems / past criminal activity etc) or NO nothing to worry with. At that time if there is a NO then the person will be contacted and given time to explain etc

It dose not tell me the State Camp Staff is getting this, it tells me the COGOP. It dose not say North Carolina COGOP or dose it say NC State Staff of the COGOP. (The was pointed out to me by someone who is not in our church, that I showed this form to get there thought They told me they could send my stuff to anyone in the COGOP)



I have thought about calling our State Overseer, But I not been able to do that with all the other stuff I been having to do for with my son.

And I have been thinking of NOT working camp this year for this reason alone. IF I make that choice, it would be a hard one for camp is the only thing I look forward to doing every year.

I am praying about this and waiting on the Lord leading.

I know I am not the only one that feels this way, I have talked to a few that dose not like how the paper is read. I do not know if they have voiced there thoughts to their director.

Maybe I am to picky.

[Full Quiver]

to the NC camp coordinators that are reading this...

Are you guys naive or just being deceptive? Plain and simple if the proposed volunteer signs the form then they could very well be checked into an all accounts. Quit skirting the truth and man up.

Billy, it's every bit as important that state, general, and all ministry be checked. Are you telling me it's ok for a pedophile to serve as a presbyter?

PG, I hear you but MANY, MANY times a person thinks they KNOW a person and they find out different.

Dolfan is telling the absolute truth; thanks Dolfan.

For those that disagree I will ask you to sign the following statement.

I, ________, will give 10% of my weekly income to my local church. If needed Danny Page will take 10% of my weekly income for his personal finances.
sign _______ date _______

explanation: It's probably not needed but will be judged on a case to case basis.

[pastorables]

I suppose that I can see both sides of this issue. In some respects, a credit report seems intrusive, yet at our business we do a limited report every time someone writes a paper check or uses a credit card. Our machine has told us if someone has 2 unpaid checks, 3 unpaid checks, insufficient funds, etc. Could it be that the credit report, if necessary, is to look for red flags in accountability and stewardship. If someone is writing bad checks all over town, would that be the kind of character trait you would want in someone working with your children? I'm just pondering these things to be completely fair.

pa

[Billy n NC]

FullQ said;

Billy, it's every bit as important that state, general, and all ministry be checked. Are you telling me it's ok for a pedophile to serve as a presbyter?

No.. Why does the cliche about Opening ones mouth and removing all doubt come to my mind here..