background check

[Pastor Bill]

I don't know why the credit report would be included, and Billy, I understand that this isn't the INTENT of the camping ministries or state offices, but if the form gives that permission, that could be a liability as well. If another form could be put together quickly with only the required information that would be better.

On background checks, I do think this is a good idea, It's a good practice to cover and to prevent those that may have alterior motives. If they are Christian and have been saved since the incident took place, they can be open and explain that, knowing doesn't equate to unforgiveness.

[Full Quiver]

Billy, why are you for checking camping volunteers but not overseers and pastors?

Pastorables, running a business you are very much justified in checking ones financial background in that way. If they don't like it then they can use cash.

[dolfan]

I want to be clear and unequivocal: Criminal background checks are a must for any camp, church, daycare, etc., anything or anyone doing work with kids. Period.

Creating forms for that is as easy as falling down. If the insurance company has a boilerplate form that it is passing on to the COGOP camps for NC and which contains a far broader authorization than a criminal background check, then one of two things is happening: 1. Digging beyond criminal backgrounds is going to occur; 2. The people working for the insurance company are taking the cheapest approach to the need. In either event, the needs of the camp, the church, and the privacy needs of the people working at them are being ignored and a shell game is being done to convince them that it'll be okay.

The rationale that "if you have nothing to hide, don't be concerned", or even "they're only going to look at criminal background" is dishonest. Not one person within the camp program can guarantee that the information that is authorized for access will not, in fact, be accessed legally. That's fundamentally wrong and it is a destruction of trust. The burden of belonging within the program is on the ones who want to volunteer, certainly, because you're dealing with the welfare of innocent kids. But, that's what you're dealing with, not their financial picture. If you are going to qualify people based on that criteria, say so. Otherwise, don't have them hand the keys to the safety of their private financial information. Honestly, I can't even believe this is being debated.

The rationale that stewardship of finances is a qualifier for working in camp is fine if you're running a financial stewardship camp, I suppose. If someone is in Chapter 7, you probably wouldn't want them advising your kids on how to balance their checkbooks. But, is the NC COGOP camp committee planning to morally and spiritually qualify camp workers on financial wisdom? If so, I have to tell you that preachers is one of the historically worst categories of occupations for strong credit ratings. There's a familiar and time-tested truism that occupations starting with "P" are often worked by bad credit risks. Policemen, politicians, preachers are famously slow bill payers --- just ask anyone in the collections game. Now, that's a very broad brush, and it is unfair to just lump everyone in those occupations into that category. But, is it any less fair than demanding a broad authorization to access private financial information while verbally assuring that it won't be used?? Well, I guess fairness is relative to which side of the question you're on and what your goals are, then, isn't it?

And, with all respect to my brother and friend, Pastorables, when you run a check or credit card through a monitoring service, it is because you're relying on the money to be in your account and it is worth the fee you pay to make sure the money someone's giving you instead of cash is going to be available to you for what they're buying. That is not the question, here. I'll repeat: If a worker is going to handle money, then the financial background check is justifiable and reasonable. Otherwise, it just ain't.

So, seems to me the solution is narrow the form, narrow the scope of the release, and get on with the real business of criminal background checks for the good of the kids. And, hey, if someone's going to be driving them on a bus or van or car or anything, by all means do a driving history on that person. Be crazy not to. This is not rocket science.

[Billy n NC]

Billy, why are you for checking camping volunteers but not overseers and pastors?

DUHH.. If they are working in Camp with our KIDS. They will Be DUH.

If coffee is not doing it for you try JOLT!

Sorry FQ, you are asking some very off the point questions.

Pastorables, running a business you are very much justified in checking ones financial background in that way. If they don't like it then they can use cash.

[one love]

If you sign a document authorizing someone to do something, they can do it. I don't care what some committee says they say they or someone else will do. I care what they CAN do. That door is too wide for this circumstance. Criminal and child abuse background checks are the right thing, but there's no need to do financial searches on people. If there is an agreement as to the lack of any need to do that, then use a different form. This is precisely where things go awry. You cannot trust people to do what they say they will do to your face, but you can always count on them to do what you allow them to do on paper.

I would listen to Dolfan he knows what he is talking about. he is a lawyer and the type of law he has practiced lets me know he is very informed on these matters.
I can see the criminal backround check but if they start denying people becuase of credit history they may find themselves with not many volunteers, things happen and people make mistakes but furthermore bad things do happen to good people. I think it is to personal and a violation of privacy.
Though Many of us could pass with flying colors I would hesitate having anything to do with a form that asked ones credit history and financial situation.

[TC]

I have no problem with criminal background checks, As and EMS worker in the state, I have a criminal background check and driving record.

For Camps I see it could a few problem,

1. Would the checks be done in time to get workers ready for camp
2. What about last min workers needed?
3. What if for some reason they get a incorrect report how would you be able to make that right.

I also think that Pastors and thier staff should go thru the same check but I think they also should go thru a credit report. I know of pastors that could not take care of their personal checking account, yet we put them in charge of a whole churches bank accounts. I know of pastors that wanted to be moved to stay ahead of the bill collectors. I think that department heads need the same thing as well as the clerk. It is only making sure we are good stewards of all things.

[MrDanger]

2. What about last min workers needed?

There isn't such a thing any more unless they have had a background check so they are capable of being a "last minute worker". If you need more workers and no one is available to work that has had a background check...you are now officially short handed.

That's the way it is in TN Youth Camps starting this year.

We are encouraging our usual workers and anyone that plans on it working in the future to go ahead and fill out the form. That way, if they are needed this year, they can work.

[Billy n NC]

Thanks McDanger , Did not think that NC Camp was the only one doing this.

Care to share TN release form??

[MrDanger]

I filled mine out and turned it in. Bro. McKinley may be able to post it if he sees it.

I do not remember our form saying anything about Credit Check.

[Paully_44]

There isn't such a thing any more unless they have had a background check so they are capable of being a "last minute worker". If you need more workers and no one is available to work that has had a background check...you are now officially short handed.

That's the way it is in TN Youth Camps starting this year.

My wife is the Sr Camp director here in Washington state and we also also have mandatory background checks. No background check, no last minute worker.

[Shellie]

I've not read every post here so maybe I'm missing a concern that I haven't thought about. But.......................

I guess my question is why is anyone WORRIED about being checked?

[RamboPreacher]

I've not read every post here so maybe I'm missing a concern that I haven't thought about. But.......................

I guess my question is why is anyone WORRIED about being checked?

I can't speak for any individual, but the gist, as I see it is mostly about the credit-check; adn what does it have to do with volunteering at camp. Some people may not have a very good credit score; and don't want that "publicized".

[one love]

it is the credit backround i think is rediculous that is all. Does church people really want other church people to know there financial history? No offense but i dont care what church you go to there is one big problem and that is gossip, so if one gets denied becuase of credit issues do you really think nobody will know that.
I just feel it is a violation of privacy and hey I have a criminal backround but I able to own a gun so I hope I would be cleared to work at a church camp
I also had to have criminal backround checks on me and all my employees when we were doing contracting with home depot's flooring department , I only had 2 guys ever fail.
I think that is wrong to be honest, I hire my guys and my insurance is responsible , so if anything goes wrong im responsible no them....ok off of my soap box

[Worshipn4ever]

I was worried they were going to find my short stint in Moccasin Bend for insanity...

or my brief time in jail for prostitution...

or worse of all...the 10 times I've been pulled over by the cops...twice in my driveway...

but I'm perfectly fine with the background checks...shouldn't have anything to hide anyway...it's protecting the camp, church, whatever.

As far as the credit check...yeah...don't think that was involved or they'd have me thrown out of camp.

[MrDanger]

As far as the credit check...yeah...don't think that was involved or they'd have me thrown out of camp.

Yeah, unfortunately Shell.y, I think most of our staff would be depleted.