Revivals and Renewal Movements?

[ichthus]

I'm just curious as to the opinions of this forum. With all the unusual stuff out there, how much do you think is genuine?

[Gerald Creasy]

"True Moves of God" are now judged by subjective Personal experiences, and the standards of "Whether it aligns to the Bible or not" is chucked out the window.

For instance a few on Jude attended Brownsville-Pensacola and believe it was genuine based on their personal experience,
the false Prophecies of the minister of Brownsville are ignored, excused and retconned.

In other words "My God is real Because I can feel him deep in my soul" so it dosent matter if that feeling makes me preach contrary to the word, issue false prophecies, or even threaten death on my critics.

[ichthus]

It is interesting sometimes the "colorful history" of some past movements that today are considered OK by many.

For instance, all the things that went on in the Cane Ridge Revival with descriptions like "women jerking until their hair snapped like wagoneers whips" and folks "treeing the devil" (on all fours grunting or barking or something like that, supposedly??) and yet some mainline denominations like some PRESBYTERIAN groups have their roots in this history!!

Then later on in the Welsh Revival with Evans Roberts or after, Jesse Penn-Lewis penned a book(no pun intended) practically calling the manifestations as from the devil and even got Roberts to waver or recant on some things.

The Azusa street revival had rolling, jerking, tongues, laughter and much other phenomena and lead to such denominations as the Assemblies of God and others and yet was said to also have spiritists and hypnotists working the altars, "writing in tongues", playing the piano in the Spirit, sending out missionaries thinking they could speak foreign languages, and one of the "founders" or human instruments involved later went off into wacko doctrines like no eternal punishment, British Israelism and even joined the KKK!

Some things seems to maybe start out genuine but turn into a real mixture after humans mess it up real bad.

[ichthus]

For instance a few on Jude attended Brownsville-Pensacola and believe it was genuine based on their personal experience,
the false Prophecies of the minister of Brownsville are ignored, excused and retconned.

It is interesting to note though, that a false prophecy CAN be given out in a genuine NT Church service, other wise the command in 1 Corinthians to JUDGE prophecy would be meaningless.

[TW]

To start with, your poll lacks the ability to account for all the possible combinations. To do so would require 65 different choices. That aside, I think that the Holy Spirit used all four of your examples to draw people to God. I also believe that there were abuses involved in all four of the revivals. People playing to the crowd, or the media. "Leaders" advancing their own theologies over scripture. Churches using this to increase their own wealth or circle of influence.

I attended the Brownsville Revival. My observations were that the night that I attended the preaching was sound scripturally. Many answered the Alter Call, earnestly seeking God. However, I found that the "circus" atmosphere to be distracting at best, with many only manifesting when the camera was focused on them. I actually gained more benefit the following morning (Sunday) at a small local church that I attended, than from the revival itself.

Gerald is correct that we should look at how it aligns itself with scripture. However I don't think that we should disregard what the Holy Spirit was able to accomplish in the lives of some who came to God during these events.


Your brother in Christ,
TW

[Jennifer Smith]

Many people were saved; that is the bottom line...

[RamboPreacher]

don't follow them, so no comment from experience.

[PastorDaniel]

I chose other....simply because I am only familiar by name with any of them. Except the Azusa and I have read extensively about it. I feel that it was genuine.

However, a little leaven, leavens the whole batch. Carnality has always caused God's people a problem. There have been many moves of God throughout history that was messed up and became a reproach because someone ate the apple.

Cashwell was a product of Azusa, he was preaching when A.J. Tomlinson recieved the Holy Ghost. So the COGOP has a connection with the Azusa like so many others and look at all the problems that we have had.

None of this discounts all the good that as been accomplished...it just shows how men tend to mess things up.

Thankfully....God tends to turn things around and turn what was meant for bad to good.

[Paully_44]

Which of these "Outpourings" do you think was a genuine move of God (or started out as one):

I chose other. I have only heard of Brownsville and Azuza, but dont know anything about either of them. Have not heard of the other 2. I have no idea how they started, or the intentions behind any of them.

[Shellie]

I am familiar with all of them. I believe that they all "started" out as a move i.e. people were hungry and God was willing to meet them there. However, like all Godly things...once it gets in man's hands it goes down hill from there.

[ichthus]

Hey, I like these responses and agree with the gist of several of them. This sounds like a balanced board on these things. Open, but cautious.

[Pastor Gary]

You left out the Pyongyang Revival. (Pyongyang is the Capitol of North Korea)

"On January 14, 1907, a group of Korean Christians and Western missionaries met in Pyongyang for a Bible study in a church on the outskirts of the city.

Halfway through, God began to move.

"They knew that the only way to survive was to depend on God," Rev. Ji Il Bang of North Korean Church said.

One by one, the men confessed their sins to each other-- sins of racial prejudice, hate, anger, and jealousy.

Bang said ,"They knew that nothing was impossible with God, and so they called on Him for forgiveness."

God answered and revival broke out. In the ensuing months, thousands repented publicly, including elders of churches and foreign missionaries serving in Korea.

"And out of that, they say, they think came the work of the Spirit that finally broke out as at Pentecost," Prof. Samuel H. Moffett, son of a missionary to Korea, said.

Thus began the Great Pyongyang Revival of 1907.

"In 1907, Pyongyang became known as the 'Jerusalem of the East,'" Bang said.

Churches sprouted up everywhere, and they grew fast.

The prayers of repentance swept across the Korean Peninsula. People walked hundreds of miles to attend revival meetings.

"In other words, the spiritual change was a repentance movement. Believers confessed their sins and were born again," Pastor Han Hum Oak, from Korean National Association of Christian Pastors, said. "They even apologized to non-believers who they were at odds with."

The revival lasted some 40 years touching all levels of society including those in political power.

Andrei Lankov is a professor of Asian history in Seoul. He said, "Pretty much every single important Korean Communist of the 40s, 30s, and 20s came from a Christian family with very few exceptions."

Even North Korea's dictator Kim Jong Il was exposed to Christianity. His grandparents were active members of a Protestant church."

[ichthus]

Wow! That's powerful. Now that's the real thing. If we could only see something like that!

[Dr. Ron]

We are seeing something like that today....just not in America.

Go to China ......see what is happening in the boc there!

Revival is not birthed in a church or denomination. It is birthed in the hearts of men and women hungry to reach the lost. Those who will sacrifice, give attention to God and stop their busy lives long enough to hear his voice.

I assure you, that most christians do NOT want what revival entails. It would be an interruption of their lives. We were created to love God by loving others...how sad that we replaced that with silly ideas of men.

[crispfin]

I don't know much about any of them, praise God, and I do mean Allah. And besides, if something needs to be revived doesn't it first have to be dead? And if the church is having revival . . .