Dr. Ron may be right

[one love]

Opposes Using Harsh methods to gain life saving information from enemy.

Is this double speak for torture? If so, do you find no contradiction between worshipping a God who was tortured and your support of it?

First: Are you drawing a comparison between a coward of a person whom kills women, children and untold innocents in the name of Allah so he can molest some unknown amount of virgins in his heaven

-vs-

My Jesus that died on the cross for the sins of the world? God made flesh that gave his life freely so that the world could be saved?

Seriously?


Second: If a known captured coward is about to detonate a nuclear device over NYC.. I would support anything to extract the necessary information short of death.

I think Jack Bauer should be president sorry couldnt resist.

I will be honest I think the newly found leader of the environmentalist religon "Al Gore" could just win..... hopefully not becuase we will fall over the oil issue it is our achilles heel (spelling) it can be our downfall really fast and a environmentalist junkie will put us 20 years backwards on this issue but i think he would win
Dont be fooled a vote for any democrat now with the house and senate is a vote for a ban on guns, supporting abortion, partial birth abortion, raised taxes, hate speech bill, smallel military...need I say more? should that alone be enough

[Jamais Vu]

Dont be fooled a vote for any democrat now with the house and senate is a vote for a ban on guns, supporting abortion, partial birth abortion, raised taxes, hate speech bill, smallel military...need I say more? should that alone be enough

HA yea.....just like anyone who shops at walmart approves of employing 12 year old children to make their electronics for the high rate of 4 cents an hour!!!!

or better yet....anyone who pays tithes to a church of god supports corrupt leadership.

[MacUser]

rjunior...
haha - sorry. We just don't need to keep our heads in the sand.

Know him well.. so you can keep his feet to the fire when his convictions will apparently and most surely fail (getting along with the opposition doesn't mean abandoning your principles - well they are not his personally so it's easy for him)... but I will vote for him over ANY full on admitted liberal such as Obama. McCain is pro military and stands strong against the terror threats.

Obama is running a campaign on a JF Kennedy appeal & style. BUT remember Kennedy believed in lowering taxes to stimulate the economy!! Obama has admitted that he will raise taxes and not because it will stimulate (pro or against).. but that it's FAIR thing to do. He doesn't have a clue.

Keep encouraging the Hillary supporters so she can bloody his nose some more..

[Dr. Ron]

Jennifer ...I don't think picking Castro to leave was a hard thing ....given his sterling performace of Mr. Bojangles. lol

Now, can you predict the winning song????? That is my only real interest...

And I think the girl could sing the dog out of "The Time of my Life"

[Shellie]

one love wrote:

I think Jack Bauer should be president

I knew I liked you.

[crispfin]

First: Are you drawing a comparison between a coward of a person whom kills women, children and untold innocents in the name of Allah so he can molest some unknown amount of virgins in his heaven

-vs-

My Jesus that died on the cross for the sins of the world? God made flesh that gave his life freely so that the world could be saved?

Seriously?


Second: If a known captured coward is about to detonate a nuclear device over NYC.. I would support anything to extract the necessary information short of death.

According to your line of reasoning, torture is justified based on the moral quality of the person, they get what they deserve. But then you make an interesting statement: you mention that Jesus gave his life to save the world. That means that there is something precious about each individual life, that each life, no matter its stage of life or what it has done is special to God. The Bible refers to us all being made in his image. And this same God who took on flesh is surrounded by his murderers and torturers and he forgives them. He fully lives out the words he spoke on loving his enemies. If I as a Christian love my enemy, if I truly believe that my Savior was right about how we are to treat each other and was not hopelessly naive or just being "spiritual" about the ways of the world, then I can not in good conscience before God approve of torturing someone. My ethic of life has to be more consistant than merely being pro-birth and anti-suicide and euthenasia, and its very unfortunate that neither political party has a consistant stance on life. America is not a Christian nation, but it wants to be a moral one. In order to have moral authority, we must bind ourselves to a standard higher than "the ends justify the means".

[MacUser]

According to your line of reasoning, torture is justified based on the moral quality of the person, they get what they deserve. ... I can not in good conscience before God approve of torturing someone. My ethic of life has to be more consistant than merely being pro-birth and anti-suicide and euthenasia, and its very unfortunate that neither political party has a consistant stance on life.

Humm.. no rethink that and leave politics out.. according to your statement.. whom is the real torturer here? The poor misunderstood man (disturbed by our US freedoms, blessings and ability to freely worship the living God) about to kill millions of REAL innocents or the Man extracting information via a non lethal method to save them?

Extracting life saving info from one person in a non lethal way vs torturing millions of families and lives if nothing is done. Are we not stopping real torture already being applied by one on many?

Dare I call the saving man a Good Samaritan? You decide. Would He be the Priest and walk above it all justified with morality/laws, the Levite that LOOKS upon it (sees he critical problem.. but ignores it) or the Samaritan whom steps in and helps, gets that person / group to safety and pays the price even after he's gone?

You decide. Don't let Liberal thinking warp you.

[crispfin]

Humm.. no rethink that and leave politics out.. according to your statement.. whom is the real torturer here? The poor misunderstood man (disturbed by our US freedoms, blessings and ability to freely worship the living God) about to kill millions of REAL innocents or the Man extracting information via a non lethal method to save them?

Not much politics in that, mostly theology. And I'm sorry, but I've read a little too much non-American perspectives on the things that drive people to terrorist ideology to believe in the simplistic "they hate our freedom" mentality. A lot of what I understand that drives them is fear. Fear that they are going to have their culture and their values destroyed, that thye are going to be colonised again, that we have come to take away their resouces. They fear that WE will take away their religion, that we are attacking their faith. And I'm not just talking removing burkas. They have confused American culture with Christianity and believe that many of the things most American Christians decry about our culture will destroy theirs as well. Many do not like their corrupt governments but they fear us imposing ours on them. This is not to justify the terrorists who spout the ideology and create the movmeents, terrorism is wrong no matter what form it takes, but until we realise that this war is against a set of ideas, we will never have enough bullets to kill those that buy into it. In fact, stacking bodies often serves as a justification and drives people into the demonic hands of people like bin Laden. And until we go beyond a simplistic understanding of them and the causes of terror: theological, econimical, political, cultural, historical, we will only be feeding the beast.

Don't let Liberal thinking warp you.

Don't be fooled into choosing the thief on your right over the one on your left.

[MacUser]

Not much politics in that, mostly theology.

Really? Sadly..you just stated everything from the websites. Hook, line and sinker.

Did you know that Islamic terrorism has been going on since the 12th century back? Do a simple google for results and read. Our USA policies DIDN'T start that my mislead friend.

Also this might be a good liberal detox for you to read.
http://search.barnesandnoble.com/Willfu ... 134/?itm=1

Again, wash your political filter out. It's clogged full of mess.

[Jennifer Smith]

Jennifer ...I don't think picking Castro to leave was a hard thing ....given his sterling performace of Mr. Bojangles. lol

Now, can you predict the winning song????? That is my only real interest...

And I think the girl could sing the dog out of "The Time of my Life"

It'll be the song your son wrote??

I don't know but I believe David A will win...




And BTW it was Mr. Tambourine,
(and I've been right about every week!)

[one love]

I get it America is to blame.... how sad.
if you think that you are not voting for

abortion/partial birth
banning of and/or strict gun laws
higher taxes
weaker military
more failing social programs
united health care that has failed around the world

but im the idiot correct....... wake up

[crispfin]

Really? Sadly..you just stated everything from the websites. Hook, line and sinker.

Um, what websites? I don't recall any of this coming from my yahoo email, myspace, facebook, or J2 which are the only sites I frequent.

Did you know that Islamic terrorism has been going on since the 12th century back? Do a simple google for results and read. Our USA policies DIDN'T start that my mislead friend.

I'm sorry that you assume anyone who questions the methods America has used in the war, or who thinks that terrorism has an ideology or is birthed from circumstances far deeper than "they hate freedom" is blaming America or in some way implying that America deserved it. I don't know why you would think that about me.

And since you were so kind as to offer me a reading recommendation, I will return the favor with one I have been enjoying and have found very helpful understanding Muslims, their views of us, how to relate to and have love for them written by an Arab Christian . http://search.barnesandnoble.com/The-Crescent-Through-the-Eyes-of-the-Cross/Naheel-T-Jabbour/e/9781600061950/?itm=1

And I'm sorry, but I am not trying to see anything through a political filter, or in terms of right and left, the two thieves that want to divide and limit my ethics and my faith.

[one love]

Really? Sadly..you just stated everything from the websites. Hook, line and sinker.

Um, what websites? I don't recall any of this coming from my yahoo email, myspace, facebook, or J2 which are the only sites I frequent.

Did you know that Islamic terrorism has been going on since the 12th century back? Do a simple google for results and read. Our USA policies DIDN'T start that my mislead friend.

I'm sorry that you assume anyone who questions the methods America has used in the war, or who thinks that terrorism has an ideology or is birthed from circumstances far deeper than "they hate freedom" is blaming America or in some way implying that America deserved it. I don't know why you would think that about me.

And since you were so kind as to offer me a reading recommendation, I will return the favor with one I have been enjoying and have found very helpful understanding Muslims, their views of us, how to relate to and have love for them written by an Arab Christian . http://search.barnesandnoble.com/The-Crescent-Through-the-Eyes-of-the-Cross/Naheel-T-Jabbour/e/9781600061950/?itm=1

And I'm sorry, but I am not trying to see anything through a political filter, or in terms of right and left, the two thieves that want to divide and limit my ethics and my faith.

Just as a note I respect your opinion I just disagree , over look me sometimes I love politics

[MacUser]

crispfinagin,
Meaning no harm.. but just making you aware of the obvious -- You have serious leftist leanings running thru that brain that relate nowhere near the Political Center my brother AND I will gladly admit I am in the right camp, no apologies either. My motives are transparent. No hidden agendas here.

My point ( from your original torture disagreement ) is that whom is the one asserting terror/torture in this situation? Whom is the one helping save innocents? Nothing is wrong with using non lethal force to save/abort certain catastrophe. I gladly, unabashedly, whole heartedly... support it.

God Bless!

[Dr. Ron]

Jennifer:

I just hope it is his song! We won't know for a few more days.
But since you pick em....I just thought you might have some insight into this one too.

I think it will be the girl.........politically correct thing to do right now.