Thoughts on the current state of the COGOP

[EagerBeaver]

I felt compelled to post an article on my blog that I have been working on for quite awhile. Even though I am not currently in COGOP, I have many friends that are, and I posted some perspectives from one who has operated outside the organization for a few months now.

My thoughts are centered toward the need for young ministers and leadership, retention of our young adults in the church, and the future leadership of the church.

Please check out the article if you're interested and I would appreciate any thoughts, input and criticism on my blog or on here. Also if your local COGOP has a success story I would love to hear it so I could share it as well.

Here's the article:
http://www.chris-brewer.com/2008/05/12/ ... #more-1166

[Pastor Gary]

I posted a response.

[EagerBeaver]

Much appreciated! I responded back!

[EagerBeaver]

Anyone else? Input is much appreciate and you CAN remain anonymous.

[RamboPreacher]

I personally think it's "sad" when I hear pastors of local churches and region/state overseers mention, or downright complain that there is no one available for all the open churches that need pastors; when there are lots of young folks that want to be ministers but have been pushed out of church because of "pet sins".

My heart aches for the young adults and older "youth". they don't get up and go because they get a job and a car. they get up and go, because they (in my opinion) aren't being related to and there is no actual teaching.

we do a great job transitioning children's ministry to Jr youth and then to Sr youth (though sometimes this is one group), but it has been my experience that there is no transition from youth to - whatever is next.

They are at an age to get a job, go to work and or go to college. so what does the church do (generally speaking) - okay, you have graduated HS, you are no longer welcome here, go to the adult classes now (though probably not in those words).

Okay, they now "get" to go to the adult classes? I might prioritize my time so that I "had to work" too, if I was to now start attending the "adult" classes. the material/curriculum is good, but come on. there are exceptions, but my enlarge, they just read the book and then ask the review questions. where is the applicability? where is the teaching and discussion and interaction?

I know that there are churches that have services that have much to be desired for young adults (Winward, and others here, as example) - but then we have a lot of churches that are not anything like that, and I will leave it at that.

When the pastor preaches week after week from a given book of the NT, and the message is based on whatever next pericope or reference is next, as a example; there is no "fresh manna". where is the seeking of God for the congregation?

/soapbox ranting.

[EagerBeaver]

I personally think it's "sad" when I hear pastors of local churches and region/state overseers mention, or downright complain that there is no one available for all the open churches that need pastors; when there are lots of young folks that want to be ministers but have been pushed out of church because of "pet sins".

My heart aches for the young adults and older "youth". they don't get up and go because they get a job and a car. they get up and go, because they (in my opinion) aren't being related to and there is no actual teaching.

we do a great job transitioning children's ministry to Jr youth and then to Sr youth (though sometimes this is one group), but it has been my experience that there is no transition from youth to - whatever is next.

They are at an age to get a job, go to work and or go to college. so what does the church do (generally speaking) - okay, you have graduated HS, you are no longer welcome here, go to the adult classes now (though probably not in those words).

Okay, they now "get" to go to the adult classes? I might prioritize my time so that I "had to work" too, if I was to now start attending the "adult" classes. the material/curriculum is good, but come on. there are exceptions, but my enlarge, they just read the book and then ask the review questions. where is the applicability? where is the teaching and discussion and interaction?

I know that there are churches that have services that have much to be desired for young adults (Winward, and others here, as example) - but then we have a lot of churches that are not anything like that, and I will leave it at that.

When the pastor preaches week after week from a given book of the NT, and the message is based on whatever next pericope or reference is next, as a example; there is no "fresh manna". where is the seeking of God for the congregation?

/soapbox ranting.

RamboPreacher you have hit the nail right on the head in terms of how it feels for a young person to be in that position.

It's no secret that young adult ministries are the hardest group to minister to because of lifestyle, schedule, relevance and all sort of different conflicts -- but it flat out seems there is no effort on the part of many COGOPs and especially from COGOP HQ to focus on the demographic that will really end up defining who the organization is and where it goes in the future.

The "adult class" solution, while a feeble yet well-intended attempt at the church to keep the young people there, is just that -- an attempt to keep them there. For what reason? For fear they will lose another person? Because they care about the person but they don't know how to minister to them? Who knows.

It pains me to see that young adults left and right are leaving the church because as you said, RP, there is nothing for them.

[Pastor Gary]

When the pastor preaches week after week from a given book of the NT, and the message is based on whatever next pericope or reference is next, as a example; there is no "fresh manna". where is the seeking of God for the congregation?

HEY! I resemble that remark....

Actually, I tend very much to be a verse-by-verse expository Bible teacher most of the time, and have taken months to CRAWL through a NT Book, and yet, each message was amazingly current and relevant to what was going on in the church that week. Expository doesn't have to be boring and irrelevant.

[dolfan]

When the pastor preaches week after week from a given book of the NT, and the message is based on whatever next pericope or reference is next, as a example; there is no "fresh manna". where is the seeking of God for the congregation?

HEY! I resemble that remark....

Actually, I tend very much to be a verse-by-verse expository Bible teacher most of the time, and have taken months to CRAWL through a NT Book, and yet, each message was amazingly current and relevant to what was going on in the church that week. Expository doesn't have to be boring and irrelevant.

May not like his style, but I still can get more from a good old J. Vernon McGee sermon than from a lot of others.

[RuSKY]

May not like his style, but I still can get more from a good old J. Vernon McGee sermon than from a lot of others.

I agree Dolfan, at least with J. Vernon, one gets some word and not a bunch of Psycology or funny stories. IMHO, Too many Ministers can't/don't get something fresh from God and try to pass off self help programs or try to be a comedian and expect the congergation to accept that as the message from God that week. Truth is...the people know better.

I recall what Bro, D.D. Creasy, (Scooter's and Gerald's grandpa)told me, "Brother ' the pastor is supposed to have his basket full of goodies to pass out to the people." As he would make a motion with his hand as if he was taking something from his heart and passing it out.... he seemed to always had those goodies. Goes to prove, one doesn't have to have a Dr. of Divinity Degree to minister,(which is a good tool) but must be able/willing to seek and find God's will.

RuSKY

[EagerBeaver]

...one doesn't have to have a Dr. of Divinity Degree to minister,(which is a good tool) but must be able/willing to seek and find God's will.

RuSKY

I agree with you. If one has a heart for ministry and that specific ministry area is his/her calling they need to operate in it and God will bless it.

Education is something every minister could do with more of. In today's changing times we need to be more relevant to the culture and if we expect our churches to grow we need our pastors and leadership educated on how to grow in today's world.

[RamboPreacher]

When the pastor preaches week after week from a given book of the NT, and the message is based on whatever next pericope or reference is next, as a example; there is no "fresh manna". where is the seeking of God for the congregation?

HEY! I resemble that remark....

Actually, I tend very much to be a verse-by-verse expository Bible teacher most of the time, and have taken months to CRAWL through a NT Book, and yet, each message was amazingly current and relevant to what was going on in the church that week. Expository doesn't have to be boring and irrelevant.

and as I mentioned, that is a "series" and there is a place for that. In fact I will be teaching Wednesdays over the summer at our church and will be text crawling through some Pauline teachings.

but to do this for years, Sunday after Sunday, and not have any exegetical discourse, but just to just the next pericope as the next weeks message? Maybe it's just me.

May not like his style, but I still can get more from a good old J. Vernon McGee sermon than from a lot of others.

...IMHO, Too many Ministers can't/don't get something fresh from God and try to pass off self help programs or try to be a comedian and expect the congergation to accept that as the message from God that week. Truth is...the people know better. ...

exactly waht I was in reference with my comment above

[EagerBeaver]

but to do this for years, Sunday after Sunday, and not have any exegetical discourse, but just to just the next pericope as the next weeks message? Maybe it's just me.

No, it's not just you...in fact I have been in COGOPs where the order of the service was simply "song service," then "sermon."

I mention that because the phrase you spoke above ties in with it...without the anointing everything becomes hum-drum and the only reason for going to church is simply because it's tradition. Glad to see more and more COGOPs are getting away from the tradition though, it's a breath of fresh air.

So this is a question for PG and the rest of you who have a relevant young adults/youth ministry. How do you pull it off and continue the success long after your current crop of young adults and youth grow out of that age bracket?

[Dr. Ron]

The key to me, and I am sure that will draw comment, is to first help young people to identify their "purpose" in life. What has God gifted you to do and what is your availability to do that.

Next is to plan a strategy to "mentor" young people. Whether it be in a class or in a day to day internship.

Eagerbeaver's emphasis and some others of you refer to going from a teen class to a young adults class....or whatever....... it implies that the shortfall is in the teaching area/relationship area. I understand.

By the time one is of college age, there should be a relationship group that is open enough and interesting enough to keep the attention of that age group.

Interestingly enough, and I do not mean to applaud myself here, but most of my college age folks enjoy my preaching. I try to be relevant.
It must be working. Then we have the classes on counseling, FPU, Boundaries, Suicide Intervention, Divorce Care, Sign language, Spanish (secong language).... and on and on.

We try to integrate them into the small group ministry. While we are not large enough to totally separate them from the young married in small groups, it seems to be a good mix.

And ...........we don't have Sunday School. We are space hampered, and do not have the horses to pull the load. Most churches are trying to do to much with too little and therefore wearing everyone out.

Do one or two things very well until you are having more than 100. It takes about 40 people in each of our services to staff them....not including greeters, and other things.

[EagerBeaver]

Most churches are trying to do to much with too little and therefore wearing everyone out.

Do one or two things very well until you are having more than 100. It takes about 40 people in each of our services to staff them....not including greeters, and other things.

I think you hit on a very good point that I didn't even think about. I can remember my parents at our old COGOP in Kelso, WA holding two or three leadership positions...one person can't wear three hats and expect to fully represent each one of them.

Of those one or two things to do very well, Dr Ron, what do you believe those common things should be among all churches? Or is it more of a thing that must be tailor made to each church according to demographics, spiritual needs, etc?

[fezzik]

Most churches are trying to do to much with too little and therefore wearing everyone out.

...two or three leadership positions...one person can't wear three hats and expect to fully represent each one of them.

I agree with these statements 100%. Most of the churches are small, and the number of workers is probably 10-20% - which often means one person is doing three jobs. Doing that often leads to not being effective in any of the jobs, rather than doing one job to the best of abilities. Building one ministry at a time, one leader at a time is better than trying to run childrens, youth, outreach, seniors, adults, mission, cpma, whatever...start small, make it great, then build from there. No individual shoud have more than one appointment...no matter the size of the church.