GREAT NEWS! GREAT NEWS!!!!!!

[stevenson]

I don't personally like Bentley. Something about him rubs me wrong. But God does say that His Word won't return void. And I think Gerald needs to provide a statement and source and then a counter from the scripture. Otherwise it's just rantings and most people won't pay it any attention. They'll look at it as gerald's opinions instead of "thus saith the Lord".

[Gerald Creasy]

Y'know, this question about Gerald's fascination with how people glom on to the Bentleys of the world has come up before. And, (I think he knows I agree with him on merit even if our temperaments about it differ) I think about Jeremiah. Everyone just shucked him off, thought he was a bit nutty, told Jeremiah jokes, etc. And, he was right. So, when I see righteous anger about stuff that's phrased in a way that demands solid biblical accountability, I tend to pay attention to that. I don't have to be Gerald to share his views, and I don't (apologies for speaking for you unsolicited, here Gerald) think he wants anyone else to be. But, he is looking for evidence that there is a certain sanity in the faith that gave him life in the Lord. If that's out of line, Gerald, I am sorry.

One of the things GOOD I got from COGOP raising is a respect for scripture.

THE MOST infuriating and AMAZING thing is that Pentecostalism (the core beliefs of which I adore) is being SOLD OUT for nonsense.

What is truth in Pentecostalism???

How is it determined???

Why just have a good Worship service work your emotions and all the Pastors wives are ready to eat ANYTHING up: From Gold teeth, to a crawlin on all fours laughing like an imbecile, to Jesus WAS NOT God to having visions of dead people.

IT"S ALL OKAY!!! The worship was good.

Look at even some of the responses in this thread - how nothing can be determined whatsoever- not even when you see people gape in amazement that your 80 year old granny is pushing her wheelchair A WHEEL CHAIR a shyster shoved her in the moment she came in the door. But NO you can't tell what they're thinking when the shyster brought her up in front and commanded her to be healed out of her wheelchair. No. You can't tell what the people are thinking at all. Absolute Insanity.
[Read with intense sarcasm]


More and more and more I am having to accept INSANITY and Counter Bible teaching as PENTECOSTALISM.

I must even--according to Jude 2 Paul--not stop someone preaching Jesus was not God because someones faith might be destroyed (rendering the Divine Nature of Jesus even unimportant in modern day Pentecostalism)

I am a hairs breadth from never setting foot in a Pentecostal organization again.

[Jennifer Smith]

I don't disagree with you (or Gerald for that matter) on the Bentleys, Hinns and Copelands of the world. I'm just saying the brother needs to calm down for the sake of his health.

Nor do many of us -- the problem with trying to silence the "Geralds" of the world is that sometimes they are the only ones alerting us that the Emperor has no clothes. I prefer to have a few voices challenging the assumptions of the easily duped masses to the mass guzzling of the kool-aid of deception.

If Gerald is right, we all owe him a debt of thanks for warning us. If he is wrong, he won't slow or stop the real move of God.

I agree to a point, but there are many who will not receive a needed healing or touch of refreshing from the Lord because of unnecessary mistrust and ambivalence due to that influence. And, the fleshly manner in which he approaches his warnings is a tip off that they are not motivated by the Spirit, or at least are not continuing in the Spirit.. I say that with respect for the person, but not for the manner in which he conducts his ministry.

[fezzik]

Couple of more perspectives...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s-RTWKSF97I&feature=related

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WG4dRHmaIa4&feature=related

[DeWayneTN]

I agree to a point, but there are many who will not receive a needed healing or touch of refreshing from the Lord because of unnecessary mistrust and ambivalence due to that influence. And, the fleshly manner in which he approaches his warnings is a tip off that they are not motivated by the Spirit, or at least are not continuing in the Spirit.. I say that with respect for the person, but not for the manner in which he conducts his ministry.

Thank you for a thoughtful response that pretty much sums up how I feel as well. We do need dissenting voices but in order for anyone to pay attention, there should at least be a mutual respect.

[pastorables]

Your question is nonsensical. How can there be a scripture that says there are no female angels.

There are no Female angels mentioned in the Bible.

The question is valid. I was looking for you to give me scripture stating more positively that God created all male angels, etc. So I am correct, your belief concerning "no female angels" comes from scriptural silence with regard to their existence.

Although, I am not convinced that Emma exists, neither can I hold fast to a doctrine that all angels are male simply due to Biblical silence. The scripture itself proclaims that "all the books of the world would be unable to account for the miracles of Christ". This one scripture lets us know that Christ likely performed miracles not mentioned in the Bible itself. I believe the Apocrypha or some similar history even lists miracles of Christ not mentioned in the Bible.

The Bible only mentions angel names and gender probably less than 30 times. With literally tens of thousands of angels, I am not willing to proclaim them all male based upon scriptural silence concerning gender.

Blessings,
pa

[DaJudge]

i am saying that people that have been there have painted a different picture of what is going on than you have...

Here is an example of what is going on. Can you honestly say this is of God? I am astounded at how many people are mislead by this fool.

At one point the comedy relief (Jeff) says that "...we're gonna laugh the HELL out of people!" When they get to hell, there won't be any laughing. God help those people.

Man. That's nothing but wildfire.

[pastorables]

One of the things GOOD I got from COGOP raising is a respect for scripture.

Gerald,

I am sincerely impressed by this statement. I didn't receive the same, but rather God taught me later in life. To the contrary, I was told by leaders (even from HQ) that we do not question teachings (even with the Bible), etc.

I am a hairs breadth from never setting foot in a Pentecostal organization again.

I am going to take this statement as satirical.

[Gerald Creasy]

The Bible only mentions angel names and gender probably less than 30 times. With literally tens of thousands of angels, I am not willing to proclaim them all male based upon scriptural silence concerning gender.

Blessings,
pa

Then you are willing to "add to" what the Bible is silent about;
what makes you think you have that right?

[Gerald Creasy]

One of the things GOOD I got from COGOP raising is a respect for scripture.

Gerald,

I am sincerely impressed by this statement. I didn't receive the same, but rather God taught me later in life. To the contrary, I was told by leaders (even from HQ) that we do not question teachings (even with the Bible), etc.

How so very odd. Similar backgrounds. Different results.

I am a hairs breadth from never setting foot in a Pentecostal organization again.

I am going to take this statement as satirical.

I wish it was. I am truely wrestling. I will always believe in the Pentecostal core but I have decide whether 1)I want my child raised in the insane atmosphere that Pentecostalism is rapidly becomming. 2) Or if I can take it anymore without throttling someone.

[THE RAzEr]

Will COGOP soon be annointing virgins to carrry revival, seeing Dead people, getting down on all fours and braying like mules?????

Talk about painting a picture... Imo, it is wrong to paint the construed and misleading images you portray of those services.

A Florida Newspaper reported Bentley annointed "virgins" to spread revival.

Todd Bentley claims God shows him dead people. His own words can be found to describe the experience.

I SAW him on their telecast get down on all fours and laugh crazily throwing his head back and forth like a braying mule.

YET WHEN I TELL YOU ALL THESE FACTS I am "painting a picture"!

Fair enough, when these facts are verified then they will be considered facts.
BTW, you didn't answer my other questions...!:wink:

Just wondering if the dead people Todd saw like the ones the Disciples saw on the mount of Transfiguration, or are they more like the ones John sawstanging around the throne rejoicing, or more like the deaed small , or more like the ones who had dead in Rev.6 for the cause who woke up and spoke.

Still I do not support Bentley just because there were people in the New Testament who saw dead people.

Ray

[THE RAzEr]

Duplicated by mistake!

Ray

[dolfan]

I found this quote:

Answer: The Bible does not necessarily support the gender of angels being male or female. Whenever gender is specifically “assigned” to an angel in Scripture, it is male (Genesis 19:10-12; Revelation 7:2; 8:3; 10:7). However, this does not necessarily indicate that angels are male. Matthew 22:30 seems to indicate that angels are “sexless,” without gender: “At the resurrection people will neither marry nor be given in marriage; they will be like the angels in heaven.” If angels do not procreate, there is no need for gender, at least not in the sense of human gender distinctions.

In a similar manner, God always refers to Himself in masculine language, although God is neither male nor female. He just uses masculine language because it more adequately describes who He is and what He does, especially in the patriarchal cultures in which the Bible was written. If angels do have a gender, in some form, Scripture would indicate that they are predominately or universally male. It is more likely that angels are genderless, just as God is, and that masculine language is just used to describe them and their role in serving God.

That seems to me to be a sound method of interpreting and applying the Scriptures. I don't think we can be dogmatic about it, and our salvation doesn't rest on the gender of angels or the lack of gender of angels. And, I think, really, the point about Bentley referring to a female angel is the least of the problems this guy has. If you take that issue away, as if it never arose in Bentley's speeches, it doesn't add to or reduce the guy's credibility. It stands or falls wholly on other grounds without regard to the angel-gender reference and is altogether not impacted by it. In his case, as I understand God and His Word, Bentley falls.

[THE RAzEr]

I found this quote:

Answer: The Bible does not necessarily support the gender of angels being male or female. Whenever gender is specifically “assigned” to an angel in Scripture, it is male (Genesis 19:10-12; Revelation 7:2; 8:3; 10:7). However, this does not necessarily indicate that angels are male. Matthew 22:30 seems to indicate that angels are “sexless,” without gender: “At the resurrection people will neither marry nor be given in marriage; they will be like the angels in heaven.” If angels do not procreate, there is no need for gender, at least not in the sense of human gender distinctions.

In a similar manner, God always refers to Himself in masculine language, although God is neither male nor female. He just uses masculine language because it more adequately describes who He is and what He does, especially in the patriarchal cultures in which the Bible was written. If angels do have a gender, in some form, Scripture would indicate that they are predominately or universally male. It is more likely that angels are genderless, just as God is, and that masculine language is just used to describe them and their role in serving God.

That seems to me to be a sound method of interpreting and applying the Scriptures. I don't think we can be dogmatic about it, and our salvation doesn't rest on the gender of angels or the lack of gender of angels. And, I think, really, the point about Bentley referring to a female angel is the least of the problems this guy has. If you take that issue away, as if it never arose in Bentley's speeches, it doesn't add to or reduce the guy's credibility. It stands or falls wholly on other grounds without regard to the angel-gender reference and is altogether not impacted by it. In his case, as I understand God and His Word, Bentley falls.

This sound.
Ray

[pastorables]

The Bible only mentions angel names and gender probably less than 30 times. With literally tens of thousands of angels, I am not willing to proclaim them all male based upon scriptural silence concerning gender.

Blessings,
pa

Then you are willing to "add to" what the Bible is silent about;
what makes you think you have that right?

Gerald,

This is exactly why it is challenging to discuss scripture with you. I used scripture to make my point and you totally disregarded it.

I am not "adding" anything, but to me there isn't enough Biblical proof one way or the other regarding female angels.

The doctrine of heaven and/or hell would be a good example. The descriptive silence concerning these real places does not prohibit us from painting visuals of the beauties or horrors of these respective dwellings.

I will not lose any sleep over the gender of angels. If I ever meet a female angel, the real test for me will not be whether she was foretold in scripture, but whether or not she gives allegiance to Christ.

To me, it's kind of like "wise men at a manger scene". Does it harm the gospel message or paint a broader picture?

pa