COGOP name change

[EagerBeaver]

OK, here's my two cents.

I believe the only way to "save" the cogop organization would be to make a totally public announcement to "denounce" some of our cultish beliefs from the past, to publically acknowledge that we have divided the Bible incorrectly, resulting in a mass exodus of some of the greatest preachers, teachers, talents and members I have known (sometimes even against their wishes) and as a good faith gesture, change the name of the organization (it would be worth the cost of new letterheads) AND the HQ location as a public display that we really have moved on.

Only then, will those former cogopers and sceptics of our organization believe that we are different.

Are you listening HQ??????

Of course HQ is not listening. You know why? Because every point you made above makes too much sense.

Until COGOP does every single thing you mentioned above, I won't be a card-carrying member of the organization again. That's sad because COGOP is where I grew up and there are a ton of people in the organization I love, but HQ seems all too willing to hang onto a sordid past in the name of "holding onto our heritage."

P.S. After they do all the things you listed above, it would be nice if they revamped the youth/young adult ministry and threw some money toward ministry training so we don't throw our young ministers into the fire and burn them out within months.

[Joey]

Okay,

I voted other the reason being is I have read this post and have a few questions. I would agree that we (COGOP) could stand a name change, however, only changing our name would it really change us (COGOP)? Meaning would it make us more relevant to our communities and cities where we are? I mean look we changed our stand on the rings, now marriage but are we really any more relevant than we were before?

In my opinion (not sure how humble it is) there is still a non-repentant attitude that is among us that we failed to heed since 1984. Simply changing our name with out changing our attitude will be like that guy who wanted to change his name at the court house. The clerk asked him his name and he said George Stinks, the clerk said, well I can see why you would want to change your name, what would you like to change it to. The gentleman look at her and said Joe.

I totally agree Pastor Rob - A repentant church body will always be at the forefront of the true change needed.
But in our trying to move forward realistically, that type of change will not come as 'easy', as say, changing the denomination name and sign.
If we can chisel away at every 'little' distraction to reaching our community, (I.e., the front sign, building first appearances, perceptions to the community by its members, etc.) then we can at least have a chance at bringing them in the doors. I know of several that wouldn't even give our church a try because of what the sign seemed to say we were on the inside. Don't we want them to come in and give us a chance before the signage runs them off?
The people in the building ARE represented by the sign out front just like a McDonalds sign is not out front of the Burger King.
The "... of prophecy" name is just one of the distractions that make up the whole issue to consider when we have a harvest in mind. This "Tradition of Men" - in keeping something that we know is a point of distraction, is something that we can modify for the greater good.

[Mat]

removed

[soulsearcher]

OK, here's my two cents.

I believe the only way to "save" the cogop organization would be to make a totally public announcement to "denounce" some of our cultish beliefs from the past, to publically acknowledge that we have divided the Bible incorrectly, resulting in a mass exodus of some of the greatest preachers, teachers, talents and members I have known (sometimes even against their wishes) and as a good faith gesture, change the name of the organization (it would be worth the cost of new letterheads) AND the HQ location as a public display that we really have moved on.

Only then, will those former cogopers and sceptics of our organization believe that we are different.

Brillant and Bold!! The most valuable two cents I've witnessed here. I just wish the powers that be would be doers and not hearers.

Bless you, Kenya - and Joey.

[one love]

OK, here's my two cents.

I believe the only way to "save" the cogop organization would be to make a totally public announcement to "denounce" some of our cultish beliefs from the past, to publically acknowledge that we have divided the Bible incorrectly, resulting in a mass exodus of some of the greatest preachers, teachers, talents and members I have known (sometimes even against their wishes) and as a good faith gesture, change the name of the organization (it would be worth the cost of new letterheads) AND the HQ location as a public display that we really have moved on.

Only then, will those former cogopers and sceptics of our organization believe that we are different.

Are you listening HQ??????

Of course HQ is not listening. You know why? Because every point you made above makes too much sense.

Until COGOP does every single thing you mentioned above, I won't be a card-carrying member of the organization again. That's sad because COGOP is where I grew up and there are a ton of people in the organization I love, but HQ seems all too willing to hang onto a sordid past in the name of "holding onto our heritage."

P.S. After they do all the things you listed above, it would be nice if they revamped the youth/young adult ministry and threw some money toward ministry training so we don't throw our young ministers into the fire and burn them out within months.

am I understanding you right you will not go to a church because of there name? If the name changed you would go? How is that a bilical way of folliwing the Lord????? Hopefully friend I misunderstood.

[Sherry]

OK, here's my two cents.

I believe the only way to "save" the cogop organization would be to make a totally public announcement to "denounce" some of our cultish beliefs from the past, to publically acknowledge that we have divided the Bible incorrectly, resulting in a mass exodus of some of the greatest preachers, teachers, talents and members I have known (sometimes even against their wishes) and as a good faith gesture, change the name of the organization (it would be worth the cost of new letterheads) AND the HQ location as a public display that we really have moved on.

Only then, will those former cogopers and sceptics of our organization believe that we are different.

Brillant and Bold!! The most valuable two cents I've witnessed here. I just wish the powers that be would be doers and not hearers.

Bless you, Kenya - and Joey.

I second that!

[DeWayneTN]

I totally understand the talk about the name change and I like the sound of some (I remember PG's suggestion of "Christian Union" at one point). At the same time, though - doesn't this sound like the latest excuse as to why we can't get people in the door? That's not true of every church but the churches that are struggling do seem to point to some policy or name or something else that comes out of HQ as to why they're not growing (ex: sending money out, marriage document, etc). Let's say we change the name, move the HQ, line up all the policies the right way (not bad ideas) but what's the next reason we can't grow?

I know people fear what they don't understand and if they fear the COGOP or if our rep precedes us, what can you personally do to overcome that? Is your biggest hindrance really HQ? The name? The same could be said of the 'Christian' description in reaching unbelievers? That may be why some Christians go around saying they're "followers" but sometimes that seems to me like a QuickStar salesman trying to make you believe they're not Amway.

I have had a lot of interaction with leaders of parachurch organizations , authors, artists, ministries and at first, I did get some 'what's the COGOP?' or 'I've heard bad things' when I spoke to them but after awhile, they see me as a Christian brother like them and those stereotypes have been shattered.

[Mountie12]

DeWayneTN wrote:

I know people fear what they don't understand and if they fear the COGOP or if our rep precedes us, what can you personally do to overcome that? Is your biggest hindrance really HQ? The name? The same could be said of the 'Christian' description in reaching unbelievers? That may be why some Christians go around saying they're "followers" but sometimes that seems to me like a QuickStar salesman trying to make you believe they're not Amway.

I have had a lot of interaction with leaders of parachurch organizations , authors, artists, ministries and at first, I did get some 'what's the COGOP?' or 'I've heard bad things' when I spoke to them but after awhile, they see me as a Christian brother like them and those stereotypes have been shattered.

I think that you have hit the proverbial nail on the head. Sometimes it takes years to shatter the stereotypes. It's all about building relationships one person at a time. Our impatience causes us to look for the quick fix. I've done name changes at churches that I've pastored. It didn't bring instant growth. It did, however, cause the community and city leaders to acknowledge that we were becoming more focused on the Gospel and not sectarianism.

[RamboPreacher]

Great post DeWayne!

I do feel compelled to say that I nearly did not attend, let alone join this local church when I knew it was a COGOP. I had no real life experience, but I had studied of the xxCOGxx denominations and "knew" about it's (then) teachings on exclusivity and other cultic teachings, especially the belief of remarriage being essentially "unpardonable" (though nobody would say it, that was really what it came down to).

I wanted NOTHING to do with that. Of course I realize that not everyone had taken graduate level comparative Christianities/religions classes. and as DeWayne said, my real experience is that when someone (most anyone) asks, or when I bring it up - they don't even know what a Church of God of Prophecy is.

This is my chosen heritage. a choice, I made willingly, obediently and without remorse or regret. I have no problem with local churches having names, and even don't have a problem with leaving "COGOP" off their sign.

With that said, though - I don't see a driving need to change the name of our organization. The local church I attend, has done all the public appologies, etc... For me, I see no reason to see that coming from HQ.

mi dos centavos.

[one love]

Great post DeWayne!

I do feel compelled to say that I nearly did not attend, let alone join this local church when I knew it was a COGOP. I had no real life experience, but I had studied of the xxCOGxx denominations and "knew" about it's (then) teachings on exclusivity and other cultic teachings, especially the belief of remarriage being essentially "unpardonable" (though nobody would say it, that was really what it came down to).

I wanted NOTHING to do with that. Of course I realize that not everyone had taken graduate level comparative Christianities/religions classes. and as DeWayne said, my real experience is that when someone (most anyone) asks, or when I bring it up - they don't even know what a Church of God of Prophecy is.

This is my chosen heritage. a choice, I made willingly, obediently and without remorse or regret. I have no problem with local churches having names, and even don't have a problem with leaving "COGOP" off their sign.

With that said, though - I don't see a driving need to change the name of our organization. The local church I attend, has done all the public appologies, etc... For me, I see no reason to see that coming from HQ.

mi dos centavos.

I love how everyone keep saying our past "cultic" practices, do you know how crazy that sounds. Run as far as you would llike friend but to most denominations we are all "cultic" becuase we believe in speaking in toungues. The judgemental appraoach so many complain about practice it here everyday, but since they dont believe in exclusivity hey "we are free from being judgemental" and "cultic"

ok.........

[RamboPreacher]

...I do feel compelled to say that I nearly did not attend, let alone join this local church when I knew it was a COGOP. I had no real life experience, but I had studied of the xxCOGxx denominations and "knew" about it's (then) teachings on exclusivity and other cultic teachings, especially the belief of remarriage being essentially "unpardonable" (though nobody would say it, that was really what it came down to)...

I love how everyone keep saying our past "cultic" practices, do you know how crazy that sounds. Run as far as you would llike friend but to most denominations we are all "cultic" becuase we believe in speaking in toungues. The judgemental appraoach so many complain about practice it here everyday, but since they dont believe in exclusivity hey "we are free from being judgemental" and "cultic"

ok.........

defensive much?
maybe it would serve better if you asked what I mean instead of assume you know what it is that I mean. let me give you a little hint:

Main Entry:
cult Listen to the pronunciation of cult
Pronunciation:
\ˈkəlt\
Function:
noun
Usage:
often attributive
Etymology:
French & Latin; French culte, from Latin cultus care, adoration, from colere to cultivate — more at wheel
Date: 1617
1: formal religious veneration : worship
2: a system of religious beliefs and ritual; also : its body of adherents
3: a religion regarded as unorthodox or spurious; also : its body of adherents
4: a system for the cure of disease based on dogma set forth by its promulgator <health cults>
5 a: great devotion to a person, idea, object, movement, or work (as a film or book); especially : such devotion regarded as a literary or intellectual fad
b: the object of such devotion
c: a usually small group of people characterized by such devotion

we ARE a cult, TCOG is a cult, COG is a cult, COGOP is a cult. when I came to that realization, it was the first step in understanding the cultic activities WE all have.

next - if you have read any of my posts you know that I completely disagree with the "evils of D&R" teaching as it was (and why I mentioned it) - similarly, the issue of excusivity - as a Christian, the body of Christ is the bride of Christ, is Christians. you may not agree but that is my belief and have mentioned it many times, and I am Glad that COGOP has adopted a membership policy that says if someone is saved, they can be a member - as example.

Further, the local COGOP I began to attend was not dogmatic about D&R, and even this louse sinner that has been married before, and has a wife that has been married before, is able to be obedient to God's will and direction (past salvation), and into discipleship and being a leader in the local church and appointed in our region as well.

I had to mature some before I could be a part. I had to understand that I neeeded to get beyond being as judgmental as those that were judging me and saying that I wasn't saved. They were, like you, probably brought up in that kind of paradigm; and many (not saying you did or didn't) just believed what they were taught without doing the study, and discipleship on their own.

They truly believe that the Bible says certain things about that particular one of the 29 teachings. I was just as "wrong" in saying "how in the world can they believe that, do the not read the Bible, themselves!"

i hope that helps, brother.

[one love]

...I do feel compelled to say that I nearly did not attend, let alone join this local church when I knew it was a COGOP. I had no real life experience, but I had studied of the xxCOGxx denominations and "knew" about it's (then) teachings on exclusivity and other cultic teachings, especially the belief of remarriage being essentially "unpardonable" (though nobody would say it, that was really what it came down to)...

I love how everyone keep saying our past "cultic" practices, do you know how crazy that sounds. Run as far as you would llike friend but to most denominations we are all "cultic" becuase we believe in speaking in toungues. The judgemental appraoach so many complain about practice it here everyday, but since they dont believe in exclusivity hey "we are free from being judgemental" and "cultic"

ok.........

defensive much?
maybe it would serve better if you asked what I mean instead of assume you know what it is that I mean. let me give you a little hint:

Main Entry:
cult Listen to the pronunciation of cult
Pronunciation:
\ˈkəlt\
Function:
noun
Usage:
often attributive
Etymology:
French & Latin; French culte, from Latin cultus care, adoration, from colere to cultivate — more at wheel
Date: 1617
1: formal religious veneration : worship
2: a system of religious beliefs and ritual; also : its body of adherents
3: a religion regarded as unorthodox or spurious; also : its body of adherents
4: a system for the cure of disease based on dogma set forth by its promulgator <health cults>
5 a: great devotion to a person, idea, object, movement, or work (as a film or book); especially : such devotion regarded as a literary or intellectual fad
b: the object of such devotion
c: a usually small group of people characterized by such devotion

we ARE a cult, TCOG is a cult, COG is a cult, COGOP is a cult. when I came to that realization, it was the first step in understanding the cultic activities WE all have.

next - if you have read any of my posts you know that I completely disagree with the "evils of D&R" teaching as it was (and why I mentioned it) - similarly, the issue of excusivity - as a Christian, the body of Christ is the bride of Christ, is Christians. you may not agree but that is my belief and have mentioned it many times, and I am Glad that COGOP has adopted a membership policy that says if someone is saved, they can be a member - as example.

Further, the local COGOP I began to attend was not dogmatic about D&R, and even this louse sinner that has been married before, and has a wife that has been married before, is able to be obedient to God's will and direction (past salvation), and into discipleship and being a leader in the local church and appointed in our region as well.

I had to mature some before I could be a part. I had to understand that I neeeded to get beyond being as judgmental as those that were judging me and saying that I wasn't saved. They were, like you, probably brought up in that kind of paradigm; and many (not saying you did or didn't) just believed what they were taught without doing the study, and discipleship on their own.

They truly believe that the Bible says certain things about that particular one of the 29 teachings. I was just as "wrong" in saying "how in the world can they believe that, do the not read the Bible, themselves!"

i hope that helps, brother.

sure it does and thankyou but it kinda brings a whole new realm to it. Im not going to go into all the different churches I have attended again, so yes I have a deep heritage in COGOP but Most the other years I was at many other churches.
Next it is not judgemental for one to say divorce and remmariage is wrong, not in the least. I understand what you believe and I dont judge you for that just as you cant judge me either and claim we are judgemental.
Do you consider a drunkard a sinner? if so that would be judgemental in your eyes. I dont apologize for my beliefs and I dont look at you any less I hope you understand that. My sister is in double marriage. D/R is plain as day to me and has nothing to do with my up bringing or how I was taught. I lived most my days in a very bad situation. As a young child yes we were in cleveland then returned and I went to so many churches with so many views I then went wild and when I got saved The word spoke to me.

I did not mean that defensive at all but in all truth most books claims there is no defenitive definition to a "cult" but when it is mentioned here is is usually in the negative.
May the Lord bless you

[Gerald Creasy]

Next it is not judgemental for one to say divorce and remmariage is wrong, not in the least.

Is it judgemental to say "divorce and remarriage is wrong" when you have ignored scriptures which allow it????

[oletimer]

Kenya wrote:

Only then, will those former cogopers and sceptics of our organization believe that we are different.

As former COGOP member, laid on pallets under the benches when I was a baby. That was when they handle fire for the pot belly heater, and walk on the tops of the benches that wasn't tied down and real light. Grew up believing in the Church and its teachings. Loved it as the Bride of Christ. Yes I believe that you are different, that is why I left.

RamboPreacher wrote:
we ARE a cult, TCOG is a cult, COG is a cult, COGOP is a cult. when I came to that realization, it was the first step in understanding the cultic activities WE all have.

We are a cult when we don't hold to sound bible doctrine. Just becouse somebody don't believe the same way somebody dose, that don't make them a cult. What make a cult is when people take the bible and try to change it to to suit their strange life style and ways.

Everyone else was giving their two cents worth I thought I would to.

[Gerald Creasy]

As former COGOP member, laid on pallets under the benches when I was a baby. That was when they handle fire for the pot belly heater, and walk on the tops of the benches that wasn't tied down and real light. Grew up believing in the Church and its teachings. Loved it as the Bride of Christ. Yes I believe that you are different, that is why I left.

These things you mention: handling fire like some firewalking Island cult or goofy fleshly acrobats....are these mentioned as PROOF (in your mind) that the old COGOP was more doctinally sound?

We are a cult when we don't hold to sound bible doctrine. Just becouse somebody don't believe the same way somebody dose, that don't make them a cult. What make a cult is when people take the bible and try to change it to to suit their strange life style and ways.

I was just wondering if "strange life style and ways" would apply to 2000 years later in the back woods of North Carolina.