COGOP name change

[RamboPreacher]

Next it is not judgemental for one to say divorce and remmariage is wrong, not in the least.

Is it judgemental to say "divorce and remarriage is wrong" when you have ignored scriptures which allow it????

actually, I was going to agree that saying that divorce is wrong. I agree, but this for another topic with one of those dead horse beating animated gifs.

I agree with your statement as stated, though.

[oletimer]

Gerald Creasy wrote:

oletimer wrote:
As former COGOP member, laid on pallets under the benches when I was a baby. That was when they handle fire for the pot belly heater, and walk on the tops of the benches that wasn't tied down and real light. Grew up believing in the Church and its teachings. Loved it as the Bride of Christ. Yes I believe that you are different, that is why I left.

These things you mention: handling fire like some firewalking Island cult or goofy fleshly acrobats....are these mentioned as PROOF (in your mind) that the old COGOP was more doctinally sound?

These were manifestation of the power of God. These people had spent many long and faithful hours praying as they had just came thru WW2 and they had prayed for country and their boys, as their love for the Lord. When I was a small child I can still remember hearing the people praying over in some pasture or field. No Gerald, these weren't "

goofy fleshly acrobats"

, but people that had as experience with God. By the way did mention that some many people came to church that at times they were on the out side looking in the windows. Personally I think that the goofy one are the sceptic and the non believer.

oletimer wrote:

We are a cult when we don't hold to sound bible doctrine. Just becouse somebody don't believe the same way somebody dose, that don't make them a cult. What make a cult is when people take the bible and try to change it to to suit their strange life style and ways.

I was just wondering if "strange life style and ways" would apply to 2000 years later in the back woods of North Carolina

Your time frame doesn't makes sence. But any waythere isn't any thing more stranger the right now. The things that many believe and do today because that have been inlighten??? I see that very strange.
_________________

Without the scriptures the God you worship is the God of your imagination.

Gerald, I know that you ment that to me and I don"t care, The God I serve is the God of the Bible. One that forgave me and put a desire to change my life, rather me Him or His Word. Yes the God I serve is the God of all creation. Thanks for the insight on your God, now maybe I'll be able to understand you better. Imagination? no never heard of that one before though.

[one love]

Next it is not judgemental for one to say divorce and remmariage is wrong, not in the least.

Is it judgemental to say "divorce and remarriage is wrong" when you have ignored scriptures which allow it????

Gerald you can say what you will about this and I respect it but there is no denying the verses that say d/r is wrong are you implying now that there is nothing wrong with it at all? All can divore and remarry just because they choose and it is ok? that would be the opposite of the bible not I.

[free]

As far as I can tell there are about 35 people who have posted on this topic...If 35 people can't agree on whether we need to change the name or what the name should be how do we expect a million members to agree on it?

Here's a question I've wondered about...How would changing the name affect your local church ministry? Would it cause people to volunteer more? Would it spark an increase in giving? Do you really think people would flock to your church becuase of a name/sign change?

I think the Bible says something about putting new wine in old skins...We can dress it up and change the name and apologize from the top down, but if the folks on the inside of the building haven't had a heart change it's all for nothng.

[Full Quiver]

how would CoGoP go about an overall apology? Would such really make a difference? Would people say oh that church that offended me in the 60's says they are sorry now.

[Gerald Creasy]

These were manifestation of the power of God. These people had spent many long and faithful hours praying as they had just came thru WW2 and they had prayed for country and their boys, as their love for the Lord. When I was a small child I can still remember hearing the people praying over in some pasture or field. No Gerald, these weren't "

goofy fleshly acrobats"

, but people that had as experience with God. By the way did mention that some many people came to church that at times they were on the out side looking in the windows. Personally I think that the goofy one are the sceptic and the non believer.

I know a former COGOP minister who told me the best prayer he ever prayed that "got through" was the one he prayed before he ran off with his female assistant pastor and dumped his wife.

People pray long and hard about many things. It doesnt define or justify Doctrine.

You did not answer the question: Do these goofy acrobatics /acts of self mesmerism/ or "LO God moved in the Service and y'all handled coals but didnt learn a thing about grace." Define or Justify Doctrine in your mind???

I was just wondering if "strange life style and ways" would apply to 2000 years later in the back woods of North Carolina

Your time frame doesn't makes sence. But any waythere isn't any thing more stranger the right now. The things that many believe and do today because that have been inlighten??? I see that very strange.

The time frame is perfectly applicable if someone is interpreting ideas from a culture 2000 years ago and that someone is a half-illiterate hillbilly from the Appalachian hills.
That is the very definition of "strange life style and ways".

[Gerald Creasy]

Gerald you can say what you will about this and I respect it but there is no denying the verses that say d/r is wrong are you implying now that there is nothing wrong with it at all? All can divore and remarry just because they choose and it is ok? that would be the opposite of the bible not I.

I am saying it is not as cut and dried as traditional COGOP (current COG)would have it being that the Doctrine NEGATES the very words of Jesus with his exception on MaTT 19:9. The wrangle that scripture to fit their doctrine by CREATING A DEFINITION OF A WORD FOUND NO WHERE ELSE ON THE PLANET and is inconsistent with scripture when you read THAT WORD as so definied in scripture.

[deb]

sure it does and thankyou but it kinda brings a whole new realm to it. Im not going to go into all the different churches I have attended again, so yes I have a deep heritage in COGOP but Most the other years I was at many other churches.
Next it is not judgemental for one to say divorce and remmariage is wrong, not in the least. I understand what you believe and I dont judge you for that just as you cant judge me either and claim we are judgemental.
Do you consider a drunkard a sinner? if so that would be judgemental in your eyes. I dont apologize for my beliefs and I dont look at you any less I hope you understand that. My sister is in double marriage. D/R is plain as day to me and has nothing to do with my up bringing or how I was taught. I lived most my days in a very bad situation. As a young child yes we were in cleveland then returned and I went to so many churches with so many views I then went wild and when I got saved The word spoke to me.

I did not mean that defensive at all but in all truth most books claims there is no defenitive definition to a "cult" but when it is mentioned here is is usually in the negative.
May the Lord bless you

Now there's a term that is a dead give away to someone's beliefs.
I personally never understood the term, "double marriage"; I don't believe it is anywhere to be found in the Bible.

[EagerBeaver]

sure it does and thankyou but it kinda brings a whole new realm to it. Im not going to go into all the different churches I have attended again, so yes I have a deep heritage in COGOP but Most the other years I was at many other churches.
Next it is not judgemental for one to say divorce and remmariage is wrong, not in the least. I understand what you believe and I dont judge you for that just as you cant judge me either and claim we are judgemental.
Do you consider a drunkard a sinner? if so that would be judgemental in your eyes. I dont apologize for my beliefs and I dont look at you any less I hope you understand that. My sister is in double marriage. D/R is plain as day to me and has nothing to do with my up bringing or how I was taught. I lived most my days in a very bad situation. As a young child yes we were in cleveland then returned and I went to so many churches with so many views I then went wild and when I got saved The word spoke to me.

I did not mean that defensive at all but in all truth most books claims there is no defenitive definition to a "cult" but when it is mentioned here is is usually in the negative.
May the Lord bless you

Now there's a term that is a dead give away to someone's beliefs.
I personally never understood the term, "double marriage"; I don't believe it is anywhere to be found in the Bible.

That's because it's not.

Double Marriage is a term we fornicat--uh, FABricated, sorry.

[Pastor Bill]

Gerald you can say what you will about this and I respect it but there is no denying the verses that say d/r is wrong are you implying now that there is nothing wrong with it at all? All can divore and remarry just because they choose and it is ok? that would be the opposite of the bible not I.

I am saying it is not as cut and dried as traditional COGOP (current COG)would have it being that the Doctrine NEGATES the very words of Jesus with his exception on MaTT 19:9. The wrangle that scripture to fit their doctrine by CREATING A DEFINITION OF A WORD FOUND NO WHERE ELSE ON THE PLANET and is inconsistent with scripture when you read THAT WORD as so definied in scripture.

Not sure what you mean by "(current COG)" are you equating traditional CoGoP stance to the current stance of the CoG, or did you mean TCOG?

(BTW, this is the reason I DON'T think changing the name to another permiation of xxCoGOxx will work, it's confusing enough already!)

[Mountie12]

Full Quiver wrote,

how would CoGoP go about an overall apology? Would such really make a difference? Would people say oh that church that offended me in the 60's says they are sorry now.

It would have to be something that is genuine and from the heart. Not "politically correct" bull. I've had friends from my days at TC who left the COGOP after years of faithful ministry and they told me I was the only person in the COGOP who made an effort to maintain a friendship with them. This has happened on more than one occasion. I've also set up meetings with Overseers & Pastors to try to get them to reach out to these guys to re-establish a relationship. There were a lot of promises made, but nothing ever substantially happened. Sadly, it seemed to always fell short on the COGOP side.

If we could issue a proclamation from the IO to each state/nation & local church to actively pursue reconciliation and be serious about it, it might have some effect. We could start by building friendships and relationships at the local level, and apologize where necessary. We're going to do this at our church in September by having a big Church Family Reunion Day. We're going to reach out to everyone who was ever a member or attended the church in the last 50 years. Our emphasis will be on love, repentance, forgiveness and hopefully, reconciliation. However, this is just the start. We have to keep an ongoing mentality of openness to God's family.

[one love]

DEB,

give me a break everyone knows I a memeber of The church of God and what I believe. Double marriage is the easiest way to describe the topic at hand as an example. I could have said I have a sister that is married to a man that was previously married, but we all understand "double marriage" people who are married where one or both were previously married. Who said it was in the bible? Do you know how many things you write on this board that is not bible? It is so funny how people can pick and choose what they want to scream about something not being in the bible. Such as trinity......

BTW add all the verses about divorce and you come to one conclusion.
May the Lord bless you

[Billy n NC]

AAAAGGHHHH Hijacked by the OLD D/R Debate

[pastorables]

I know a former COGOP minister who told me the best prayer he ever prayed that "got through" was the one he prayed before he ran off with his female assistant pastor and dumped his wife.

Gerald, if I may join the discussion? What you have done with the above example is no different than what you accuse others of with their examples. Formulating opinions concerning the right ways of God cannot be diminished to one awkward event that left a bad taste. I have experienced several of these also, but I didn't allow them to become my measuring stick for all of pentecostalism.

People pray long and hard about many things. It doesnt define or justify Doctrine.

Your statement is true, but this statement would likewise be true, "The effectual, fervent prayer of the righteous will avail much". I think you are trying to compare the powerful works of God to an individual's biblical understanding. My grandfather couldn't read very well at all, obviously never attended seminary, and believed during his time that the church flag offered protection, but I have witnessed him pray the prayer of faith for healing multiple times. Wouldn't you think that God's grace is larger than our minds can comprehend?

You did not answer the question: Do these goofy acrobatics /acts of self mesmerism/ or "LO God moved in the Service and y'all handled coals but didnt learn a thing about grace." Define or Justify Doctrine in your mind???

Okay, you have thrown the gauntlet now.

With all due respect, your question comes across disrespectful to those who have paved the way for us to be where we are today. My grandmother preached in CoGoP for 55 years. She handled coals, hugged hot stove pipes, prayed out devils, healed the sick, and likely many things I don't know about. She came from an era when people truly spent time in prayer... can you spell HOURS of travailing prayer? Did that era have everything right about grace? No, but I do remember the altars being much fuller and more concerned about God's time than most today.

Gerald, based upon the miracles, including salvation experiences, that I've witnessed in my short lifetime, I would have to say that God considered the failures in a much different way than we would have. He still does the same today.

[Kenya]

how would CoGoP go about an overall apology? Would such really make a difference? Would people say oh that church that offended me in the 60's says they are sorry now.

I think they should follow the example of the Church of God, Anderson and put it in the papers, Christian magazines, etc. We didn't listen many years ago when we were told to repent. I think it is about time, and yes, I believe it's necessary.