Explanations?

KBevangelist · Postby **KBevangelist** » August 19th, 2008, 9:00 am

I don't want to hijack the other threads so here goes.........

My big complaint is not all the changes, though I don't understand some, but the lack of explanation for them.

Like.... No VOS, Spanish VOS, or Men's Ministry.... they just don't appoint anyone and say little or nothing at all.

Not everyone reads jude2, though they should and this should be required in the Assembly minutes. Not everyone uses, emails or the like.

I believe they are doing themselves damage by not specifically addressing why these are no longer ministries or whatever you call it

My rant for today

KB

PastorDaniel · Postby **PastorDaniel** » August 19th, 2008, 9:28 am

No more family ministries either... :shock:

I agree...it's as if we are all to ignorant to understand....

But some of us that are not on committees or boards are also getting some "edumaKayshun".....Right Keith!!!

I'll have my B.S. in Organizational Management in less than 3 months!

By the way....I heard that Beacon was doing a one year teach out and closing...how does this affect you?

stevenson · Postby **stevenson** » August 19th, 2008, 9:33 am

Yeah, I kinda don't understand why we have big announcements when we start a ministry but then when we stop having then we're silent. I appreciate the letter that Mark Menke but it leaves alot of questions.

Pastor Bill · Postby **Pastor Bill** » August 19th, 2008, 9:59 am

Wasn't most of this at least mentioned in Brother Howards address on Tuesday afternoon?

Maybe all the specific details, but the rational and direction was there.

Much of this is being done to streamline the IO and focus more on the harvest and leadership development. This is what most people on Jude 2 have been asking for, but when they start to do it, and actually start cutting back, well we can't have our cake and eat it too.

stevenson · Postby **stevenson** » August 19th, 2008, 10:14 am

I don't have a problem with it pastor Biil. I just don't understand why we take 2 people from Canada and relocate them and make them the Youth Ministers if the plan is to eventually desolve that ministry at an International level. Understand where I'm coming from now?

Pastor Bill · Postby **Pastor Bill** » August 19th, 2008, 10:16 am

Also, there were meetings for State/Regional/IO Childrens ministry leaders, and also for State/Regional/IO Women's ministers where the descriptions mentioned their changing roles. I think these areas will change into more childrens/youth leadership development. If that's the case, Men's ministry changing into men's leadership development would almost be redundant with the current leadership development dept. So it's not that it's disappearing, but the refocusing is combining it with another area.

At least that was the impression I got.

PastorDaniel · Postby **PastorDaniel** » August 19th, 2008, 10:53 am

The point is not disagreement Pastor Bill....it's the lack of announcement and notification...

It's the lack of trust and faith in the Pastors....Pastor Don accomplished a good thing by getting them to take the "honestly" portion from the tithing document....

How come when money gets tight...the "Pastors" are not tithing "Honestly?" That was kind of insulting....

However, I believe they realized that and that is why they changed it at the request of one Pastor when they already had an overwhelming concensus...so I appreciate that.

I'm hoping that the powers that be are moving more towards openess in leadership.....People just don't like "not knowing" what is going on until "after the fact"

Pastor Bill · Postby **Pastor Bill** » August 19th, 2008, 11:00 am

I know, and I agree, that part of the report was a little offensive. We discussed that at my local church some. I do know there are many pastors out there that are not tithing, our SO made a comment in a meeting that since we've done some revamping of our finances, balanced the budget, and provided very open reporting we've come to the point that all pastors in our state who are receiving a salary are paying tithes. He said he made that comment in a meeting with other SOs and was the only one who could claim that.

I think that says alot in itself, we've got to get back to the point where there is TRUST and openness both directions.

Dr. Ron · Postby **Dr. Ron** » August 19th, 2008, 11:01 am

WOW! Good for Scott.

I wish he would come here and just get some of the pastors to pay their bills.

Pastor Bill · Postby **Pastor Bill** » August 19th, 2008, 11:02 am

Also, I'm not trying to defend the seeming lack of communication on this. BUT I do wonder how many who were shocked by this were there for Brother Howard's address on Tuesday where he explained the rational. I wonder if the problem was that he didn't cover enough detail, or if that particular service just wasn't as well attended/or broadcast.

Cpt. Jack · Postby **Cpt. Jack** » August 19th, 2008, 11:08 am

I don't want to hijack the other threads so here goes.........

My big complaint is not all the changes, though I don't understand some, but the lack of explanation for them.

Like.... No VOS, Spanish VOS, or Men's Ministry.... they just don't appoint anyone and say little or nothing at all.

Not everyone reads jude2, though they should and this should be required in the Assembly minutes. Not everyone uses, emails or the like.

I believe they are doing themselves damage by not specifically addressing why these are no longer ministries or whatever you call it

My rant for today

KB

Remember KB you are on the bottom of the food chain. As such you will only get crumbs.

Cpt Jack

dawgs10 · Postby **dawgs10** » August 19th, 2008, 11:11 am

the explanations stoped when we allowed io to not be held accountable to the assembly. do you think that any of the ministry cuts would have happened (VOS) if they had to pass it at an assembly? of course not. thats why the io doesnt offer explanations, they dont have to and its our fault. i would think that could be changed. the church is still the church and the money still comes from local churchs and local churchs still pays there salary. maybe the presb. needs to be reminded of that before its all gone .

dawgs10 · Postby **dawgs10** » August 19th, 2008, 12:25 pm

is that crickets i hear!!!

DaJudge · Postby **DaJudge** » August 19th, 2008, 12:46 pm

dawgs10 wrote:the explanations stoped when we allowed io to not be held accountable to the assembly. do you think that any of the ministry cuts would have happened (VOS) if they had to pass it at an assembly? of course not. thats why the io doesnt offer explanations, they dont have to and its our fault. i would think that could be changed. the church is still the church and the money still comes from local churchs and local churchs still pays there salary. maybe the presb. needs to be reminded of that before its all gone .

Personally, I trust Bro. Randy and the presbyters. I don't agree with all they do, but I trust in them. We are going in the right direction.

dawgs10 · Postby **dawgs10** » August 19th, 2008, 1:02 pm

DaJudge wrote:
dawgs10 wrote:the explanations stoped when we allowed io to not be held accountable to the assembly. do you think that any of the ministry cuts would have happened (VOS) if they had to pass it at an assembly? of course not. thats why the io doesnt offer explanations, they dont have to and its our fault. i would think that could be changed. the church is still the church and the money still comes from local churchs and local churchs still pays there salary. maybe the presb. needs to be reminded of that before its all gone .

Personally, I trust Bro. Randy and the presbyters. I don't agree with all they do, but I trust in them. We are going in the right direction.

i trust them as well. it would be great if they showed trust in us and allow us to know what is going on before hand. i do feel over all we are going in the right direction and i dont disagree with sliming down. but talk to us about.

Jude 2

Explanations?

Explanations?

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