Fellow Confederates

[Jennifer Smith]

I wore white sheets many nights as a child.

I knew it! A closet KKK member!

I'm going to wave a white flag and let you confederates win one for a change...

[TW]

Paul, I cite:

Elikia M’bokolo, April 1998, Le Monde diplomatique. Quote:"The African continent was bled of its human resources via all possible routes. Across the Sahara, through the Red Sea, from the Indian Ocean ports and across the Atlantic. At least ten centuries of slavery for the benefit of the Muslim countries (from the ninth to the nineteenth)." He continues: "Four million slaves exported via the Red Sea, another four million through the Swahili ports of the Indian Ocean, perhaps as many as nine million along the trans-Saharan caravan route, and eleven to twenty million (depending on the author) across the Atlantic Ocean"

The African slave trade was in full stride by the time that the Europeans became involved. African kingdoms such as the Oyo empire (Yoruba), Kong Empire, Kingdom of Benin, Kingdom of Fouta Djallon, Kingdom of Fouta Tooro, Kingdom of Koya, Kingdom of Khasso, Kingdom of Kaabu, Fante Confederacy, Ashanti Confederacy, and the kingdom of Dahomey all relied upon the slave trade for much if not most of their wealth.

My "black" friends that I spoke of have come to terms with the truth. They realize that I had nothing to do with slavery, as they have nothing to do with being slaves. That fault lies with our forefathers, all we can do now is try to respect and help each other. You are laboring under the perception that is currently popular. Perception does not always equate to truth. Truth equates to truth!


TW

[Gerald Creasy]

I don't recall that conversation.

Page 2 of this thread.

Look for African Americans , rebel flags, both modern day and historical.

[Full Quiver]

[TW] They have come to terms with the truth. They do not blame the "evil" white man for slavery, rather they realize that for the most part their own people (read as Africans) sold their ancestors into slavery.

While I agree in part with you, I must take exception to the above statement.

I work in Ghana, Africa..it was this country more than most African Nations that the greatest amoount of slaves came through. you are aware that tribes would enter into the deeper parts of interior African and raid the villages for slaves. Bring many of them back through Ghana. The dutch was among the first to transport slaves, then France and Britian.

You would be hard pressed in any African Nation to find African who do not blame the "White Man" for slavery. Even though as you pointed out that they were sold by their own. You can add to that slavery the slavery that came through colonization by the "White Power Nations" who raped and pilliages the countries.

Nor do I think if you stopped the average American of African Decent on the street that he would agree with you.

Please Paul! Africans are still enslaving their own people and selling them for cash. You for one should know this.
The Europeans didn't force the slave trade but merely bought what was already for sale. I'd bet that 90% of the black Americans that truly descended from African slaves would not be experiencing the freedom, liberty, and prosperity of American citizenship today if these Europeans you speak of had not shipped them to the US. No sir, they would be earning the equivalent of $12 a year and living in a hut like Barack Obama's half brother is today.

[pastorables]

You would be hard pressed in any African Nation to find African who do not blame the "White Man" for slavery. Even though as you pointed out that they were sold by their own. You can add to that slavery the slavery that came through colonization by the "White Power Nations" who raped and pilliages the countries.

Strictly from limited knowledge, I would tend to agree with this. I understand that racial tension between whites and blacks in South Africa can be fierce. Paul?

I do know from experience that living in the Mississippi delta is much different than anywhere else in the state. The racial tensions there are an ever present reality that partisanship is alive and well.

pa

[dolfan]

[TW] They have come to terms with the truth. They do not blame the "evil" white man for slavery, rather they realize that for the most part their own people (read as Africans) sold their ancestors into slavery.

While I agree in part with you, I must take exception to the above statement.

I work in Ghana, Africa..it was this country more than most African Nations that the greatest amoount of slaves came through. you are aware that tribes would enter into the deeper parts of interior African and raid the villages for slaves. Bring many of them back through Ghana. The dutch was among the first to transport slaves, then France and Britian.

You would be hard pressed in any African Nation to find African who do not blame the "White Man" for slavery. Even though as you pointed out that they were sold by their own. You can add to that slavery the slavery that came through colonization by the "White Power Nations" who raped and pilliages the countries.

Nor do I think if you stopped the average American of African Decent on the street that he would agree with you.

Please Paul! Africans are still enslaving their own people and selling them for cash. You for one should know this.
The Europeans didn't force the slave trade but merely bought what was already for sale. I'd bet that 90% of the black Americans that truly descended from African slaves would not be experiencing the freedom, liberty, and prosperity of American citizenship today if these Europeans you speak of had not shipped them to the US. No sir, they would be earning the equivalent of $12 a year and living in a hut like Barack Obama's half brother is today.

FQ,

With all respect, that argument is a bit like saying, "The SS troopers didn't force the Jews into the concentration camps, but merely escorted the ones who were already there into the gas chamber." I'd bet, by the same token, that 90% of the African slaves wouldn't have been slaves at all had there been no European demand. And, frankly, that's a pretty poor argument that without slavery, most of the black people today in America would be living in African huts with George Obama. It sounds a bit like arguing that because sin abounds, grace does much more abound, therefore viva la sin. I don't think they should thank us for it.

[Steve]

Oh, come on, people. One SIDE is not to blame for the whole thing in ANY of these examples!

If that were so, then the folks who grow the poppies for use in opiate drugs have NO BLAME TO BEAR for the drugs used in the world, only the users are to blame. Surely no one is THAT naive! It takes two parties to tango, and whether you are talking about who is RESPONSIBLE for slavery, whether slavery was THE issue of the civil war, whether ALL blacks are offended by the rebel flag or whatever, wrong or blame can be shown on BOTH SIDES. None of these arguments are all or nothing.

This sounds like an old discussion on jewelry!...
I DON'T KEER IF'N IT IS JEST A WEDDIN RANG, YORE GOIN TO HAAAAEEEELLLL!

Please!

[Jamais Vu]

Ive been to a Hank Williams Jr concert that had a few black guys walking around wearing rebel flags as capes. I also have a friend who wore a rebel flag baseball cap.

The ignorance of racism is going to abound weather you fly your rebel flag or not. Racist people are still going to be racist even if you run and hide your confederate flag, and act as if you are ashamed of your past. At least those who are going to support the confederate flag are bringing conversations and discussions of racism out in the open, instead of acting like all is well as long as there are no flags waiving.

[Poimen]

For my fellow confederates... check out the following link.

Confederate Reformation Movement

[paul]

[TW] They have come to terms with the truth. They do not blame the "evil" white man for slavery, rather they realize that for the most part their own people (read as Africans) sold their ancestors into slavery.

While I agree in part with you, I must take exception to the above statement.

I work in Ghana, Africa..it was this country more than most African Nations that the greatest amoount of slaves came through. you are aware that tribes would enter into the deeper parts of interior African and raid the villages for slaves. Bring many of them back through Ghana. The dutch was among the first to transport slaves, then France and Britian.

You would be hard pressed in any African Nation to find African who do not blame the "White Man" for slavery. Even though as you pointed out that they were sold by their own. You can add to that slavery the slavery that came through colonization by the "White Power Nations" who raped and pilliages the countries.

Nor do I think if you stopped the average American of African Decent on the street that he would agree with you.

Please Paul! Africans are still enslaving their own people and selling them for cash. You for one should know this.
The Europeans didn't force the slave trade but merely bought what was already for sale. I'd bet that 90% of the black Americans that truly descended from African slaves would not be experiencing the freedom, liberty, and prosperity of American citizenship today if these Europeans you speak of had not shipped them to the US. No sir, they would be earning the equivalent of $12 a year and living in a hut like Barack Obama's half brother is today.

FQ, Love yoou bro....but please reread what you popsted..maybe a few times and let it sink in. So in your analogy the end justified the means ?

As far as Africans selling Africans...the only situaton that I am aware of is in Sudan...and I might make a slight but important clarification. It is muslims selling christians, generally girls that are forced into marraige to muslims or worse. so in your agrument...if these girls baby's get to live in a muslims house they are better off because at least they don't have to live in a hut......

Pastorables

Strictly from limited knowledge, I would tend to agree with this. I understand that racial tension between whites and blacks in South Africa can be fierce. Paul?

Just think for a moment, I have friends that are Africans, and friends that are Africons (Whites born and raised in Africa). Yoou know the history, you have seen pictures of the sowoeta slums....the british ruled, the africans had very little to no say in anything concerning their country. When aparthiad came to the forfront...the british left south Africa and it turned into a total nightmare....became the most crime infested country in Africa. Why ? They did not know how to run a White Mans government. As a rule, they do not trust Whites, but they will smile and take our money and place our sign over their door. they feel like they deserve it...maybe they do.

I cannot begin to tell you of the countries that have faced this same dilima...south Africa, Nigeria, Ghana, India, Burma, Philippines, Mozambique, Zimbabwe and the list goes on. Let me see how about Pakistan, Kashmire, Afganistan, Palistine/Israel Conflict..another brainchild of the british after WWII as they felt the power to carve land and reassign entire populations to relocate to foriegn lands.

[Steve]

To bring this thread back on track, here is a page that has the diary of a Confederate soldier who fought along side my great-great grandfather. He was in the 28th Tennessee CSA, my gg was in the 20th TN CSA. He tells the story from the eyes of someone who saw it first hand. Interesting read.

[Dr. Ron]

OKAY!!!!!!

Here's the deal......

As long as there are African- Americans, Hispanic Americans, Italian-Americans, and any other hyphonated Americans, I deserve the right to be a Southern American!

I have the right to be proud of MY heritage (Sothern by the grace of God), just as much as the black man who doesn't even know where Africa is on the world map.....and yes most do and that was not a racist statement...

When I lived in South Dakota, the predjudice against the Indians (The ONLY true Americans) was far worse than any thing I have ever seen against blacks in the south,......and I was rasied here.

It is not a black and white issue. It is historical and deservedly has people who love their heritage. We see that here on this board all the time. "COGOP" or "TGOP" or (pick one) may have it's faults, but it's my heritage and I WON"T leave it". So what is the difference???

I had family on both sides. That is actually how I came to be. These guys got together after the war to figure out what the heck they were fighting about (neither owned anything ..let alone slaves) and their kids fell in love and what do you know .....a few generations later...here I am!!!

Many of you don't qualify to post on here.....we didn't buy most of you until the Louisiana purchase. Until that time you were squatters on Indian land.......you want to talk about unjust wars?????

[Jennifer Smith]

Steve wrote:

This sounds like an old discussion on jewelry!...
I DON'T KEER IF'N IT IS JEST A WEDDIN RANG, YORE GOIN TO HAAAAEEEELLLL!

Now, that is funny.... Smile

Let me just say, I'm not laying blame to the south or southerners for what happened in the past. I think we sometimes still to need to work on more unity and love, and yes, even sensitivity to others. This has been such a personal journey and a conviction that it is one I get rather passionate about. Please don't think I say any of it out of meanness, or a desire to take anyone's heritage away... Everyone's heritage is flawed, but still an important part of who we are. We can't embrace the good parts of our heritage sometimes without the bad too.

(BTW, "African-American" just acknowledges their heritage- they are of African descent and that is part of them. They are Americans too, another side of their heritage, both equally important. I know we sometimes hate the whole "PC" concept, but there is something to be said for being considerate and using terms that show respect for others.)

[Mike Vande]

Ive been to a Hank Williams Jr concert that had a few black guys walking around wearing rebel flags as capes. I also have a friend who wore a rebel flag baseball cap.

Well, if they wore them into any number of urban communities, they'd end up scragged and left for dead in some alley. The majority of the black community in the US does view the confederate flag as a racist symbol.

And, that's not hard to understand, when the KKK was originally founded by former confederate general Nathan Bedford Forrest, and the fact that the confederate flag is often flown at their meetings doesn't do much to quell the rumors.

The confederate flag may not have started out as a racist symbol, it wouldn't be the first time a symbol was co-opted. The swastika was originally a symbol of the Greek god Apollo. Hitler co-opted it as a symbol for his racist organization.

Meanings change.

[Poimen]

Just a note of correction

And, that's not hard to understand, when the KKK was originally founded by former confederate general Nathan Bedford Forrest

Nathan Bedford Forest was not among the 6 founders of the original KKK. It is said he joined later when exposed to the Klan and was imediately elected to leadership. However, he consistently denied that.