death of the local union

[Full Quiver]

Our local electrical union, which I am a part of but not radically, is having a huge vote today.

A few years ago 9 of the 16 union electrical contractors formed their own association of contractors and decided to negotiate with the local union as a 9 party group instead of the 16 party group that they formerly were a part of. They garnered a separate contract with lower wages for the employees and the right to hire "so called" electricians off the street. This influx of "so called" electricians has caused qualified and trained electricians to be laid off and not rehired.

Now that contract is up and negotiations have been underway for a new one. These contractors employ over 700 union members. They have given their best and final offer which we are to vote on today. It offers 23 negative changes to the worker and one positive change. The positive change is a $1.00 per hour pay increase to a journeyman wireman. Apprentices get a percentage of the pay scale the Journeyman gets so an apprentice would only get a percentage of that dollar raise. Apprentices would however lose insurance benefits for their families, their deductibles would increase, and their co-insurance would increase. That sounds like a deal. They also would lose half their year's retirement fund.

Here's the catch. On the surface the members say NO WAY. The contractors are prepared to totally walk away from the union and no longer be associated. One of them has been associated for over 80 years and another for over 60 years. This could put 700+ men and women out of work IF they walked away from these "non-union" contractors. They might maintain their present rate of pay but would no longer have insurance and retirement benefits. The insurance is not the best but is really good if you ask me. We make no contributions besides turning a profit for the contractor. The deductibles aren't bad and the co-insurance is 15%. It is also a PPO so I can choose where I go.

I voted no which means they can leave the union and I don't want this contract. Everyone that I spoke with is voting no or has voted no except one person. He has a real cushy job. The weird thing is that I do not work under this contract. I work for one of the 6 contractors that decided to keep things the way they have always been. Our contract renegotiates in April. Our contractors have always made a profit and don't see a need to cut wages and benefits to do so. It's weird because my vote directly influences the lives of so many other people and not really myself at this time.

The local union exists by receiving "working dues or assessments" from the worker's paycheck. A small percentage is paid weekly by each worker to maintain the union hall and it's employees. If this contract fails then no more working dues will be collected from these 700+ employees and the local union will probably lose it's charter.

It's a strange day among Nashville electricians to say the least. I am all for right to work laws, merit pay, etc. but am caught in an unfamiliar situation here.

BTW, this new contract would almost completely do away with our apprenticeship school and thus the training of new skilled wireman. Do you really want the buildings that you work in to be wired by people that have no electrical education and training?

[DaJudge]

BTW, this new contract would almost completely do away with our apprenticeship school and thus the training of new skilled wireman. Do you really want the buildings that you work in to be wired by people that have no electrical education and training?

I don't know about TN, but in GA to work as an electrician you have to have license issued by the Secretary of State. To get it you have to pass and exam. There are also privately run schools and state run technical schools that give electrical training. So the question you ask at the end of you post is a bit of a false choice. Just because the union might be "busted", doesn't mean that the nonunion people working as electricians will be poorly trained.

[Full Quiver]

I understand your post. That is not the case here in TN. The union lobbied for such laws but failed. The non-union sector has an apprenticeship school as well but cannot touch our school. We learn more in 2 years then they do in 4. Our program is 5 years. I have worked with people that have been through either program so I know. I have been through the union school and it is tough. I have also worked with union and non union guys that have no schooling; that's scary.

[dolfan]

As the son of an electrician, I hope you guys get what you want. The training thing is big, big stuff, as you've already said. My dad worked for Brown & Root for years out west (Texas, Oklahoma, a while in Arkansas) on coal gasification plants as a foreman for them.

[DaJudge]

Does Tennessee have a license requirements for electricians?

[Full Quiver]

Does Tennessee have a license requirements for electricians

NO!

Just a license requirement for electrical contractors (owner of the business) not the actual electricians or installers.

[forestwalker]

They garnered a separate contract with lower wages for the employees and the right to hire "so called" electricians off the street. This influx of "so called" electricians has caused qualified and trained electricians to be laid off and not rehired.

Is this code for illegal workers? This is what has really weakened the construction-related unions out this way.

[RamboPreacher]

Uhm, please don't take this wrong, but I thought that belonging to a union was not allowed?

[forestwalker]

I don't think cogop's theology has been reshaped by the GOP to quite that degree yet.

[EagerBeaver]

Uhm, please don't take this wrong, but I thought that belonging to a union was not allowed?

Lodge

ie
Moose Lodge
Fraternal Order of Eagles
VFW
etc.

[RamboPreacher]

I don't think cogop's theology has been reshaped by the GOP to quite that degree yet.

but he's not in the COGOP.

General Assembly 8 - 01/10/1913 | Page Reference 67,68
Q. Can any one belonging to the United Coal Miner's Association be receive into the Church of God? A. The question might cover labor unions of all kinds. This matter has bee looked into and studied carefully from every view point. The time will come when we cannot buy nor sell unless we have the mark of the beast in hand or forehead. It is a matter of bread and butter, but we do not dare to compromise and be bound by an order to bestow a favor upon a member of such order in preference to a brother of the household of faith. The question answered before with a positive, No!

General Assembly 10 - 11/06/1914 | Page Reference 27
REPORT OF COMMITTEE NO. 7. After the report was read the General Overseer read from the Echoes of Eighth Annual Assembly as follows: Q. Can any one [sic] belonging to the United Coal Miners' Association be received into the Church of God? A. The question might cover labor unions of all kinds. This matter has been looked into and studied carefully from every view point. The time will come when we cannot buy nor sell unless we have the mark of the beast in hand or forehead. It is a matter of bread and butter, but we do not dare to compromise and be bound by an order to bestow favor upon a member of such orders preference in to a brother of the household of faith [sic]. The question has been answered before with a positive, No! General Overseer stated the reason for a consideration of this subject. This subject was discussed at some length. Opposite views were expressed freely, but with no bitterness or ill feelings toward one another. The matter was left unsettled for the time being and the assembly adjourned for the day at 4:50 p.m.

General Assembly 10 - 11/07/1914 | Page Reference 29-30
Second reference to labor unions--Time did not permi [sic] any further discussion of the subject. General Overseer gave a rule to follow for the present. The Assembly stands against members of the church being members of lodges and all oath-bound organizations and labor unions. But for the present
distress members will be granted the privilege of paying dues to labor unions as a tax to purchase a right to work in the mines, factories and other public works, but should not attend or take part in their meetings. As a minister is to be an example of believers no one should be licensed or ordained to preach that is in any way connected with labor unions or pays dues to them. The ministers are advised to teach and instruct our people on this subject that each one may see for himself that he should not be thus unequally yoked together with unbelievers. People can be received into the church who merely pay their dues for the privilege of working if not otherwise connected with said unions.

General Assembly 11 - 11/06/1915 | Page Reference 19
Attention was called to the membership and labor union question, and a concluding minute read. At the close of the reading the entire congregation was melted under the mighty hand of God as He so wonderfully set His seal of approval upon it. On account of it being so vividly demonstrated that the Lord was pleased with it, it was unanimously accepted and it could have been truthfully said, It seemed good to the Holy Ghost and us. After the decision was made by the Holy Ghost the whole assembly kneeled before God and wept and gave thanks to His name. The decision as read: The Assembly of the Churches of God stand for the full standard laid down in the Bible. Therefore, the members of the Church of God shall not be members of any lodge or labor union, nor voluntarily pay any dues to them for any cause. If, however, the company by which members are employed holds back a part of their wages for any cause such members are not responsible, but it is happened unto them according to the Scriptures ... kept back by fraud. General overseer: I love to see questions settled in this way. When we get to the full truth concerning the divorce and remarriage question it will be settled in a similar way.

General Assembly 14 - 11/04/1919 | Page Reference 42
Question three. Shall we continue present ruling on unions? Answer. The Spirit witnessed so wonderfully a few years ago when we reached a conclusion on this subject, I do not know that we could make any amendments. We cannot hold up for unions. The church stands for middle ground. See minutes of 1915.

General Assembly 79 - 09/10/1984 | Page Reference 125-126
SECTION 3 LABOR-MANAGEMENT RELATIONS In the 45th Assembly in 1950, the following recommendation was approved: unions to have work, but they are not to have any part in business matters in the unions. We further recommend that our members are not to take part in strikes unless forced to. In no case are they to take part in acts of violence in the picket lines. We suggest that this recommendation, along with any other relative to this subject, be superseded with the following resolution: Members of the Church of God involved in labor-management disputes should be examples in manifesting Christian principles of respect for one another. While labor and management may both be tempted to work to their own advantage in the practical world of labor-management negotiations, and dis- agreements may arise, the Christian must be governed by godly principles which clearly oppose violence, greed or abuse of others. Paul's instructions to the Romans are timely for this day: peaceably with all men every man on his own things, but every man also on the things of others (Philippians 2:4).

this was COG, and I assume rolled to other groups as they came from the "original".

maybe a later recommendation in those groups superseded this, I don't know. it seems there are, or may be some holes in communication and understanding in many areas of these past recommendations that are the official stand. but for someone like me that has no presence in that history other than what's written for my perusal, that is what I have to go by.

And also - this is NOT directed to FQ, I understand he is not a member of the xxCOGxx churches. it just brought the subject up.

[Pastor Gary]

Uhm, please don't take this wrong, but I thought that belonging to a union was not allowed?

Lodge

ie
Moose Lodge
Fraternal Order of Eagles
VFW
etc.

Not quite -- the VFW would not be included in any prohibition against Lodges. The underlying principle is a restriction against joining "Secret Societies" in which an oath of membership is taken that (a) often involves violent consequences for revealing the secrets, and (b) places that group as one's highest allegiance, above faith and Christian Fellowship. Masonic Orders are the classic example.

[EagerBeaver]

Uhm, please don't take this wrong, but I thought that belonging to a union was not allowed?

Lodge

ie
Moose Lodge
Fraternal Order of Eagles
VFW
etc.

Not quite -- the VFW would not be included in any prohibition against Lodges. The underlying principle is a restriction against joining "Secret Societies" in which an oath of membership is taken that (a) often involves violent consequences for revealing the secrets, and (b) places that group as one's highest allegiance, above faith and Christian Fellowship. Masonic Orders are the classic example.

I was actually told once in a COGOP Church that VFW counted as a lodge, and the person who told me said the rationale behind it was the VFW folks were all militant.

Freemasons are probably the most dangerous lodge.

Unions are totally different.

[Pastor Gary]

I was actually told once in a COGOP Church that VFW counted as a lodge...

You were told wrong.

[Full Quiver]

The bad contract was overwhelmingly voted down by nearly 400 votes. Less than 100 members voted for it. We will see what happens now.

Although the local union reps. often do dirty, underhanded, politician type stuff, they don't do it in private or secret like free masons and such so it is not a secret order or lodge.