Lifeway Christian bookstore pulls mag from shelves

[dawgs10]

there are a lot of pentecostals that would love to look at scripture with some of the "elect" on this forum that would like to remove the book of acts and pretend that it does not exist.

[Steve]

...and there are many Spirit-filled Southern Baptists.......your point?

[Gerald Creasy]

there is a lot of pentecostals that would love to look at scripture with some of the "elect" on this forum that would like to remove the book of acts and pretend that it does not exist.

spurious

flummery

disingenuous

[pastorables]

If one is going to use the Bible to discourage women pastors, one must also use the Bible to discourage career women. A valid argument can be made against both.

I would hate to think of a world with no women doctors, no women police officers, no women professors, no women builders, no women politicians, etc...

My grandmother served as a pastor in COGOP for 55 years. She performed every duty the church would allow with prayerful diligence. During that time, she was not allowed to administer the Lord's supper, baptise, or perform weddings. Of the permissible areas of leadership, she gracefully did her very best. She even successfully conducted the oversight of building projects. My grandmother's leadership example is an integral part of my own ministry today.

Speaking of Southern Baptists? Isn't Beth Moore a member? She doesn't count as a pastor I suppose?

[dawgs10]

...and there are many Spirit-filled Southern Baptists.......your point?

and if they were in charge of the southern baptist assc. i would hope that some of the unfounded doctorine that the sbc lives and dies for would be changed. this is my experience--most people i deal with in my town that are not living right and according to the word of God they are on their way to hell says this when asked are you saved. i am baptist. this is because there is such a large amount of baptists in my town not because baptist are not going to heaven so try to stay on subject. when asked if they would like to come to church with me they say i am baptist. there is a couple right now that love our church, their kids love our church but because papaw billy bob preached for years that women cant preach they dont get very involved even though we have one of the best childrens ministries in the area. so they miss out because of a sbc hang up!!! sad

[one love]

I am one hundred percent against the theory of

"Men are not doing their job so God has to use women"

God does not use anything that he does not approve of. Further more he will not annoint anything that he is not in approval of. I have heard Many wonderful women preach and have no problem with women ministers. I have a woman for a pastor now and does a wonderful Job.
I can see the argument why one would think woman cant preach but I do not see that in the scripture or apply it in that manner at all.
God does not need to lower his standard for anyone or anything and will always have enough people to do his work. He chooses some woman for the same reason he chooses some MEN because he called them to the ministry.

Just some of my thoughts and I know may will disagree and some will agree. There are many in TCOG that dont like it and many that have no problem with it and see it as biblical. However most will accept the assembly supporting it but still have some personal views.


I also have no problem with woman in higher positions in the world. Such as Bosses, doctors, VICE PRESIDENTS etc...
I know some people say they would never work under a woman, hey they are free to feel that way I just would never, never understand that. If I am blessed to have a daughter next I will send her to college and encourage her to do whatever it is she feels she wants to. Whether it is a lawyer, doctor, or a owner of a business, boss of a major company.

Just my .02


May the Lord bless

[MrDanger]

Steve, I'm confused. I mean, if Tracy really believed this, she wouldn't come on a forum and use scripture to teach us men when she posts (which she has done on several occasions).

Lifeway, has several contradictions. My favorite is a couple of months ago, they had on their endcaps John MacArthur's book about snakes in our midsts where he teaches against such teachers as Erwin McManus and Rob Bell (both originally in the SBC). The next endcap, had Rob Bell's books and videos. The next one had Erwin McManus' books. Just down from that was Beth Moore's Bible studies. Beth believes in some form the apostolic gifts still exist. MacArthur believes the apostolic gifts are not currently operating.

Too me, Lifeway needs to admit that for the most part, they are getting away from just being a SBC bookstore. They are allowing and promoting books with a lot of view points that they didn't in the past.

[Steve]

Steve, I'm confused. I mean, if Tracy really believed this, she wouldn't come on a forum and use scripture to teach us men when she posts (which she has done on several occasions).

First of all, this is not the doctrine board, but here goes....

34 Let your women keep silence in the churches: for it is not permitted unto them to speak; but they are commanded to be under obedience, as also saith the law. 35 And if they will learn any thing, let them ask their husbands at home: for it is a shame for women to speak in the church.

I don't assume you would argue that Jude2 is a church? What I have said is my understanding of scripture on the matter of women pastors after much study, and as I said, I do NOT expect what I say to change any opinions. I will not get into a big debate over this, it's been done. Do an HONEST study of the words women or woman and see what the Scripture says about this subject, and then believe it or don't. Everyone has to be convinced in their own mind. I am, and so are most of you. Let's at least come at it from Scripture and not anecdotes. It has been my experience that some will not or cannot do that.

Lifeway, has several contradictions. My favorite is a couple of months ago, they had on their endcaps John MacArthur's book about snakes in our midsts where he teaches against such teachers as Erwin McManus and Rob Bell (both originally in the SBC). The next endcap, had Rob Bell's books and videos. The next one had Erwin McManus' books. Just down from that was Beth Moore's Bible studies. Beth believes in some form the apostolic gifts still exist. MacArthur believes the apostolic gifts are not currently operating.

And which book store does NOT have opposing views in some way presented? Is COGOP, TCOG, AOG, SBC or ANY church for that matter all holding hands and singing Cum-By-Ya on these issues? Nope.

Too me, Lifeway needs to admit that for the most part, they are getting away from just being a SBC bookstore. They are allowing and promoting books with a lot of view points that they didn't in the past.

That is up to Lifeway, and I would tend to agree. In the end they are a business, and I suppose they make decisions while balancing belief and bottom line. That is their right and responsibility.

I'm with Tracy on this one. Either carry it or don't, but don't put it under the counter!

[MrDanger]

Lifeway, has several contradictions. My favorite is a couple of months ago, they had on their endcaps John MacArthur's book about snakes in our midsts where he teaches against such teachers as Erwin McManus and Rob Bell (both originally in the SBC). The next endcap, had Rob Bell's books and videos. The next one had Erwin McManus' books. Just down from that was Beth Moore's Bible studies. Beth believes in some form the apostolic gifts still exist. MacArthur believes the apostolic gifts are not currently operating.

And which book store does NOT have opposing views in some way presented? Is COGOP, TCOG, AOG, SBC or ANY church for that matter all holding hands and singing Cum-By-Ya on these issues? Nope.

Too me, Lifeway needs to admit that for the most part, they are getting away from just being a SBC bookstore. They are allowing and promoting books with a lot of view points that they didn't in the past.

That is up to Lifeway, and I would tend to agree. In the end they are a business, and I suppose they make decisions while balancing belief and bottom line. That is their right and responsibility.

Oh, don't get me wrong, I have no problem with them caring opposing views. I actually am very thankful. It's a big change in their policies from the past. I really don't care what they sell there as long as they keep the shelves stocked, offer competitive prices, and are close by. It keeps me from driving to the junky Family Christian Store in Rivergate.

[MrDanger]

Steve, I'm confused. I mean, if Tracy really believed this, she wouldn't come on a forum and use scripture to teach us men when she posts (which she has done on several occasions).

First of all, this is not the doctrine board, but here goes....

34 Let your women keep silence in the churches: for it is not permitted unto them to speak; but they are commanded to be under obedience, as also saith the law. 35 And if they will learn any thing, let them ask their husbands at home: for it is a shame for women to speak in the church.

I don't assume you would argue that Jude2 is a church? What I have said is my understanding of scripture on the matter of women pastors after much study, and as I said, I do NOT expect what I say to change any opinions. I will not get into a big debate over this, it's been done. Do an HONEST study of the words women or woman and see what the Scripture says about this subject, and then believe it or don't. Everyone has to be convinced in their own mind. I am, and so are most of you. Let's at least come at it from Scripture and not anecdotes. It has been my experience that some will not or cannot do that.

Steve, here is my problem with how people interpret this. Does your wife, Tracy, etc. keep silent in church. Do they keep silent in church? I mean TOTALLY SILENT at church as is instructed? Do these women learn anything at all? If so, how do they learn it Do they learn it by studying God's Word or do they do as this scripture specifically states, they just ask their husbands?

I haven't ever read any discussions on here about this that I remember. I will say I don't get it. I don't understand why I have learned (not gotten hyped up on emotion) by Frances Allen, Mary Lois Hamm, Londa Richardson, Sterlene Murray, Janice Miller, Beth Moore, Kay Arthur (do I really need to go on).

Here's another question. And none of this is sarcasm. I really don't understand what to do with this scripture. At what age do women stop having the right to teach young men. By an American standard of 18, because that doesn't fit with the age of an adult in the middle eastern culture at the time that scripture was written.

[Full Quiver]

I don't assume you would argue that Jude2 is a church?

Can we assume that you would believe that all believers are the church? If so, then by the SBC's belief Tracy is out of line to teach men even on a forum. I happen to disagree with the SBC but she says she doesn't.

[dawgs10]

the sbc teaches that the prophet in the old testament was replaced with the preacher (or the word being preached) in the new testament. yet when you look at scripture that says in the last days your sons and daughters will prophesy this does not mean preaching or teaching the word? or when women are told in the new testament not to speak the word with their head uncovered? to many holes in the doctorine.

[dolfan]

Everything's pretty Baptist fare, but, hey, it's a SBC owned deal and that's their right. Silly, but its their call.

Yeah, thanks for letting us in on that fact.

You're welcome.

[Steve]

I don't assume you would argue that Jude2 is a church?

Can we assume that you would believe that all believers are the church? If so, then by the SBC's belief Tracy is out of line to teach men even on a forum. I happen to disagree with the SBC but she says she doesn't.

Yes, I agree that all believers are the Body of Christ (church), but in the context of this passage, Paul is addressing the operation in a church SERVICE, as stated below.

19 Yet in the church I had rather speak five words with my understanding, that by my voice I might teach others also, than ten thousand words in an unknown tongue.

I have read that Paul is addressing women speaking in tongues in the meeting in this passage, because the entire chapter is talking about tongues with the exception of vv. 34-35. Why would Paul leave his subject so abruptly and return to it again in verse 36? This is a possible explanation.

[Steve]

the sbc teaches that the prophet in the old testament was replaced with the preacher (or the word being preached) in the new testament. yet when you look at scripture that says in the last days your sons and daughters will prophesy this does not mean preaching or teaching the word? or when women are told in the new testament not to speak the word with their head uncovered? to many holes in the doctorine.

So we are to just sweep the entire doctrine under the rug because some churches teach it incorrectly or inconsistently?

Paul completes 1 Cor. 14 by addressing ideas such as this:

36 What? came the word of God out from you? or came it unto you only? 37 If any man think himself to be a prophet, or spiritual, let him acknowledge that the things that I write unto you are the commandments of the Lord. 38 But if any man be ignorant, let him be ignorant.