Christ the Magician?

[HogWild]

I'd love to hear Rambo's take on this MSNBC article...

A team of scientists led by renowned French marine archaeologist Franck Goddio recently announced that they have found a bowl, dating to between the late 2nd century B.C. and the early 1st century A.D., that is engraved with what they believe could be the world's first known reference to Christ.

If the word "Christ" refers to the Biblical Jesus Christ, as is speculated, then the discovery may provide evidence that Christianity and paganism at times intertwined in the ancient world.

Article is here

[HogWild]

"It could very well be a reference to Jesus Christ, in that he was once the primary exponent of white magic," Goddio, co-founder of the Oxford Center of Maritime Archaeology, said.

it's just funny to even read...

[forestwalker]

I'm not Rambo, but it's hooey. It's the same bad underlying assumption as made by those hyping the Gnostic hooey that showing diversity of belief in the early Christian world somehow undermines orthodox Christianity. The church is already well aware of its own heretics--not to mention the non-Christians using the name of Christ for their own gain which was likely the case here--thank you very much.

[Gerald Creasy]

In addition, weren't there many who laid the claim to Messiah or Christ? even after Jesus?

How do they know it refers to Jesus?

What prejudice would make them think that????

[RamboPreacher]

agreed Forestwalker.

as for the archaeology, the first thing I see a red flag popping up is the dating. they either left out how they dated this, or I missed it in my reading.

C14 dating only works on biological matter/artifacts. an earthen vessel can't be dated that way. perhaps they were using stratigraphic evidences or other equivalent comparison, but that is even less accurate under water than if it was on land and you could see the layers.

Don't get me wrong, there are experts in this kind of dating, and I am not one of them, but I am interested in learning more about the site notes and database to learn why and how they come to these conclusions.

Semitic spell bowls are common, and yes the Pagan worshipers used spell scrolls, tablets, cups etc as well (from what we know of physical evidences and textual interpretations).

I can see the logic of a pagan invoking the "Christ" title, or name on the cup/bowl. especially depending on the audience it was intended. Kinda like how we have some religious "sects" that proclaim they are "Christian", while their teaching denies who Christ really is). the people of the time (assuming the dating is close, but I have a feeling they are "moving up" the date within their range of guestimation so that it is "closer" to a "source") were mostly illiterate, and there was no "Bible", well with the exception probably of the Septuagint.

So many "Christianities" came to be, especially before our history of orthodoxy and heresy hunting.

in conclusion:
* I doubt it is as old as they are saying.
* It may in fact be referring to Christ Jesus, but out of context, and for a particular group, nothing to be assumed about a magician-canon reference. (though that is what they are somewhat attempting to make it out as).

that's off the top of my head without knowing more of the team and their research.