Allow me to vent

[Shellie]

Armchair quarterbacks. They're everywhere.

[one love]

Rant?? One sentence in a lengthy exchange is hardly a rant

.

True it was not a "rant" in the sense that it was not long. But it was still a shot. I guess you were upset because she was not a minister etc. dunno. Yet I don't know what that had to do with us as a organization

I didn't mention you, either... I didn't even mention your group by name. I responded to the idea being presented that suggested that Theological education was negative.

Sure you did not say our group name but does that change the remark? If I respond by saying "your organization" does that negate the fact that I was talking about COGOP? No certainly not.

Great. You and I both know that our common roots have an anti-intellectual tradition. We have both heard preachers score points with an audience by saying, "cemetery... I mean seminary... yuk, yuk, yuk." Thank God we, in COGOP, are past that now, and there are actually major initiatives introduced to promote higher education among our pastors and overseers. I simply suggested that, instead of railing against "Theology Schools" perhaps she should recognize that a lot of people (in her organization) would greatly benefit from a little Theology schooling.

I feel it is good as well to educate yourself no doubt about it. I am glad to see our younger generations going to college more and more. It will be a must that my children go to College.
PG I can understand if you were frustrated with her remarks, yet as I said many agreed with her. I can see both points but I felt you were talking about missionary ministers though you never said that, this being why I posted the way I did.
I just did not see how her Organization or yours had anything to do with it. I felt it seemed like a pot shot for nothing. I have been fair to everyone here and helped some in other ways. So I do get a little confused at certain remarks lately. If that is just how it is, maybe I misunderstood people.
Either way I meant no harm. I feel college is great. Does one need college to minister? Absolutely not! So those that have no degree are just as capable of doing their job as those with degrees.
I am bowing out now may the Lord bless you PG, I pray the small pot shots can come to a stop. I have seen thread after thread slamming "our organization" what if others did the same to "yours"?

I also pray that the Lord works out a way for them to come there and minister just as he worked out your churches coming together

[Gerald Creasy]

TCOGGERS ARE NEVER WRONG!!!!!!


EVER


About anything.


Even slightly.

[Pastor Gary]

True it was not a "rant" in the sense that it was not long. But it was still a shot. I guess you were upset because she was not a minister etc. dunno. Yet I don't know what that had to do with us as a organization.

Okay -- let me try this... I like you. You, however, are NOT representative of the attitude we have been exposed to here by some of your fellow adherents. Having recently lost a favorite uncle who attended TCOG in VA for some years, I don't speak out of hatred for an entire group. I just tire of the attitude that some -- SOME -- bring here that reeks of "I'm/we're-more-spiritual-than-you" and that's what I was reading between Racerunner's lines. There was a sense of "well, in MY church we love Jesus and obey him better than y'all who hire people to do stuff" that just hit me wrong.

I apologize to all the fine, humble, loving TCOG folks who do NOT exhibit that attitude (toss yourself in there, buddy) and ask that you help all of us stamp it out when it rears its ugly head in ANY group.

Sure you did not say our group name but does that change the remark? If I respond by saying "your organization" does that negate the fact that I was talking about COGOP? No certainly not.

See above.

I feel it is good as well to educate yourself no doubt about it. I am glad to see our younger generations going to college more and more. It will be a must that my children go to College. ...I feel college is great. Does one need college to minister? Absolutely not! So those that have no degree are just as capable of doing their job as those with degrees.

And here's where we part company, at least somewhat: I think those lacking education should be seeking more and not saying "Well, I may have only a GED, but I can do my job as well as that guy with a degree." Maybe on a job more hand-focused (manual) than mind-focused, but pastoring today requires so many skills it is scary, and I am pushing those who serve with me to advance and improve. Not all can go back to college, but they can be well-read and self-educated beyond their formal level.

I also pray that the Lord works out a way for them to come there and minister just as he worked out your churches coming together

He didn't work that out without some leg work and cooperation on our part.

[Mike Vande]

Yep, as if I have not trusted a faithful God and had him come through for me time after time.

Yes, me too, and been provided for many times when I couldn't claim having "believed" for anything as well.

That doesn't negate the fact... the FACT... that sometimes God just miraculously provides funds from the most unexpected sources, and sometimes He allows us to work it out the hard way, still giving him glory for it all.

Yeah, I suppose the trick is to when and which each is.

And it is beyond incredulity to assert that the solo compensated pastor is some kind of Biblically correct method of church operation.

I wonder how much of that concept comes from pastors who have had to deal with "palace uprisings" from their staff, and parishioners who don't think their opinions are paid enough attention to...

An argument could be made for NO paid clergy, for MANY paid clergy and for almost any other model -- I seriously doubt if God is losing any sleep worrying about our various management paradigms.

I suspect there really isn't a "silver bullet" form of church government. Perhaps the ministry/government paradigm for an individual church needs to change occasionally, in order to deal with whatever challenges and opportunities it faces over the course of it's existence.

In any event, I pray for you, and for all of our brothers here in ministry of any sort and of any & all denominations or nomenclatures, that your ministry needs and desires be met beyond all you can dream, and that you not only have all you need to accomplish whatever God tasks you with, but that you all have eyes to recognize that provision when you see it. I think that might be the hardest part, sometimes.

[soulsearcher]

PG, you have a old friend and brother here who is standing with you, according to your faith, in believing and trusting God to send multi-gifted team players who will catch the vision entrusted to you and run with it, following your lead. I also stand with you in trusting God for an abundant outpouring of financial blessing over you and the entire ministry under your leadership.

Please know that when I see you here on Jude2, I remember a young man, a young friend, who was one of the "coolest" people in my world. Someone who moved me with his artistic ability, and motivated me with his fervor for Jesus. In short, you amazed me.

You're even more amazing now.

[one love]

PG said:

I apologize to all the fine, humble, loving TCOG folks who do NOT exhibit that attitude (toss yourself in there, buddy) and ask that you help all of us stamp it out when it rears its ugly head in ANY group.

I appreciate this comment, thank you. I apologize if I have offended anyone on this site at anytime. I pray we can all respect each other regardless of our differences

[EagerBeaver]

PG said:

I apologize to all the fine, humble, loving TCOG folks who do NOT exhibit that attitude (toss yourself in there, buddy) and ask that you help all of us stamp it out when it rears its ugly head in ANY group.

I appreciate this comment, thank you. I apologize if I have offended anyone on this site at anytime. I pray we can all respect each other regardless of our differences

One Love,

We do respect each OTHER...as far as I am concerned I as a COGOPer find it very hard to respect the spirit prevalent in the church organization with which you are affiliated.

Does that mean I don't consider you a brother in Christ? Absolutely not. In fact I for one would be proud to stand next to you in heaven one day and I personally wish we could have met in person when I lived in your neck of the woods.

As much as the "church" is part of the person, there are many good people here that can make the differentiation between the person and their convictions.

[Pastor Gary]

Please know that when I see you here on Jude2, I remember a young man, a young friend, who was one of the "coolest" people in my world. Someone who moved me with his artistic ability, and motivated me with his fervor for Jesus. In short, you amazed me.

You're even more amazing now.

I love people who have selective memory! I am glad you remember only the best of things about me and not the negatives -- and I treasure your friendship, also. (YOU are the talented one.)

[one love]

PG said:

I apologize to all the fine, humble, loving TCOG folks who do NOT exhibit that attitude (toss yourself in there, buddy) and ask that you help all of us stamp it out when it rears its ugly head in ANY group.

I appreciate this comment, thank you. I apologize if I have offended anyone on this site at anytime. I pray we can all respect each other regardless of our differences

One Love,

We do respect each OTHER...as far as I am concerned I as a COGOPer find it very hard to respect the spirit prevalent in the church organization with which you are affiliated.

Does that mean I don't consider you a brother in Christ? Absolutely not. In fact I for one would be proud to stand next to you in heaven one day and I personally wish we could have met in person when I lived in your neck of the woods.

As much as the "church" is part of the person, there are many good people here that can make the differentiation between the person and their convictions.

I dont know what spirit you are talking about at all. If you are basing your opinion on a few people that post here online or other forums that is pretty sad. As a matter of fact most that have been online are many that caused a lot of problems and are not in TCOG at the moment.
There are not many that come online as a large group of people, even on our own forum. So I do not know what spirit you are talking about....

I have been to almost every church you could think of. I went to a baptist church, a huge mega church (charismatic/pentecostal) one of the larger COG in the area and also COGOP ( not to mention many others as well. IN all this the first time I went to a convention in TCOG it was some of the most loving people I have ever met and still are.

If I was to base the actions of some on a organization then I should not have any respect for COGOP after all my family has been through, but I don't look at it that way. Not to mention some of the attitudes I have received online, should I judge an entire organization based on these people? Surely not.

My point being if you met more TCOG people you would see some of the most loving people you have ever known, believe it or not. I have been many churches not just TCOG.
Believe it or not for the most part we have a good relationship with most COGOP churches on the field, it is not as perceived here online. I have been asked more then once to come preach at a COGOP. Just yesterday we had some from COGOP, pentecostal holiness, baptist to come and sing at a homecoming.
There are good people and bad people in all churches. I know some that have posted here that have had a bad attitude that are not a part of TCOG any longer and I know some in the COGOP that post with a bad attitude.
I judge people by their own actions not by their church, just as I don't judge any race of people. I feel it is the person not their church, race, family etc....

I do appreciate your opinion of me personally and I also wish we could have got together when you were in Hampton Roads we could have had some good times.