Back to the basics

[kurt73]

Reading in the book of Acts I have came to a conclusion that we as christians need to get back to the simplicity of what Jesus asked us to do. Peter and John did not preach a elaborate message, they did not try to use theologians to try to understand God word, they did not hold conferences on ''How to live right for Christ", "How to not sin", etc. They preach the cross and thousands repented. I'm not saying we should not study but are we really preaching the simple message of repentance in our churches today?
Are we getting to wrap up in trying to find new ''things'' to try to get people in church and missing out what really draws someone to the cross? Are we being lazy and not witnessing to the lost and letting the Holy Ghost convict their hearts?

What do you think?

[Dr. Ron]

I think you may be on to something.....

I know that as long as I stay with the "Christ and Him crucified " message, I get great response from sinners, but I get flack from the "super christians" who want more "meat".......!!!! They don't get it.....

Get back to basics.......and stay there and let the SCs go .......

[fezzik]

There is another side of this idea...

You are focused on winning the lost. What about people who are faithfully believing in Christ and living for Him? The training you mentioned is probably focused on them.

The people being preached to in Acts had never heard of Jesus Christ, the 12 disciples, Christianity, etc. Most people today have heard of it, know about it on some level, etc. The information age that we live in is going to require some unique approaches to spread the gospel and it's going to require some unique methods of getting the message across to people who know about the message and have rejected it in the past. The foundation of the message should be the same (Jesus loves you and died to set you free), but you can't just preach that in a church every Sunday or else you're likely to be just preaching to the "regulars" who have heard it every other Sunday their entire lives. If you are taking that message to the streets...great. But, you have to try to get a message of living faithfully across to people who are already believers, right?

[Dr. Ron]

fezzik,
This is the point exactly. What is the church service designed for? What do your "long time christians " think is the primary purpose for the coming together.

Every church service has to serve a purpose. In my church, the "meat" is done in small group gatherings, bible studies....that sort of thing....

However, the preaching of Christ sometimes surprises the long timers.....believe it or not, they learn something about the relationship with Christ by going back to the basics.

If you read any of the great coaches in pro sports, they will tell you that the success of any endevor is to stay with the basics......

No problem with people preaching sermons to inform...but what can the congregation take with them that will make their lives more producitve....

[paul]

You know, over the past week as I have seen a slew of new post...debating over various doctrinal issues. I wondered, how does this effect the millions lost whitout Christ. I wondered about the millions looking for a healing in their body, millions around the world starving. the crisis in Darfur, and so many other places.

Then I am reminded of the words of Paul

1 Corinthians 1:17 For Christ sent me not to baptize, but to preach the gospel: not with wisdom of words, lest the cross of Christ should be made of none effect.

1 Corinthians 2
1And I, brethren, when I came to you, came not with excellency of speech or of wisdom, declaring unto you the testimony of God.

2For I determined not to know any thing among you, save Jesus Christ, and him crucified.

3And I was with you in weakness, and in fear, and in much trembling.

4And my speech and my preaching was not with enticing words of man's wisdom, but in demonstration of the Spirit and of power:

5That your faith should not stand in the wisdom of men, but in the power of God.

6Howbeit we speak wisdom among them that are perfect: yet not the wisdom of this world, nor of the princes of this world, that come to nought:

7But we speak the wisdom of God in a mystery, even the hidden wisdom, which God ordained before the world unto our glory:

8Which none of the princes of this world knew: for had they known it, they would not have crucified the Lord of glory.

9But as it is written, Eye hath not seen, nor ear heard, neither have entered into the heart of man, the things which God hath prepared for them that love him.

10But God hath revealed them unto us by his Spirit: for the Spirit searcheth all things, yea, the deep things of God.

For myself the greatest lesson I have learned from preacheing around the world is the simplicity of the gospel is what brings people to Christ and Love is the pathway to power.

then again as some would sujest...Apostle Paul got it all wrong.

[RamboPreacher]

guess, my thought is s bit different. the conversions should be in teh highways and biways. t he workplace, at school, in the grocery store, etc...

I am not saying that there should be no salvation messages at church, but "Christians" already attend church. the "services" at church should be for teaching and discipling them.

I am not against salvation messages, but for many churches when there is nary a visitor, let alone an unsaved visitor for weeks, then the salvations messages are not very stimulating to the Christian "student". that is sitting in the pew wanting to know more about how they can live their every day life with and for God.

I have been to churches that had basic salvation messages, only. and the discipleship/teaching was at other times. In fact, attended one for 7 or so years, and the affect it had on me was that it was "seed". I wasn't "saved" under that ministry. was forced to go from my parents. once I had received Christ, I returned to that church. nothing was changed. Since I was already saved, I left. I wanted to sit under some teaching/preaching, not learn again and again how to get saved.

[kurt73]

There is another side of this idea...

You are focused on winning the lost. What about people who are faithfully believing in Christ and living for Him? The training you mentioned is probably focused on them.

The people being preached to in Acts had never heard of Jesus Christ, the 12 disciples, Christianity, etc. Most people today have heard of it, know about it on some level, etc. The information age that we live in is going to require some unique approaches to spread the gospel and it's going to require some unique methods of getting the message across to people who know about the message and have rejected it in the past. The foundation of the message should be the same (Jesus loves you and died to set you free), but you can't just preach that in a church every Sunday or else you're likely to be just preaching to the "regulars" who have heard it every other Sunday their entire lives. If you are taking that message to the streets...great. But, you have to try to get a message of living faithfully across to people who are already believers, right?

I agree we need to feed the christian but like what Ron stated we do this in small groups, bible studies, etc.

Let me ask you this though, Paul preached to the Romans which in those days where very smart or more advance then the rest of the world. A lot like today people but Paul still preach the simple message to them. He did let the highly intelligent keep him from straying away from the basic.

The ''super christian'' like what Ron calls them beat their chest and boast their ''in deepth'' knowledge of the Word but do very little to add to the church and do very little to witness to the lost from what I see.

Regardless where you are in your walk, newbie or 50 yr walk with Christ lets not forget the main reason we are in the strange world that we are passing through and that is to worship Him and spread the good news!

[Pastor Bill]

Alot of it depends on who's coming in. If you're preaching to a room full of the same people that were there last week, and have been members or attending, and profess salvation, then a message focusing on our commission to be out working, or stepping up, but if you have a good flow of newcomers and unsaved, then the focus MUST be on salvation, and the saved need to be focused on the work at hand.

Unfortunately more and more I am seeing the selfishness and immaturity in the US church. If it's a salvation message and you're already saved, then rejoice and pray for that new family on the back row, you've got work to do, and complaining about wanting more meat ain't it!

[kurt73]

Without going in extreme detials or bible studies but if we look at what the temple in the OT was used for it was to offer sacrifices to sin. I know there is various room of the temple and in the NT they read scripture. When scripture is read we get convicted of our sin.
Like what has been said already the christian people are not going out and compelling them to come in and hear the good news. The church should be for the lost not a fellowship hall like we see today. To many times we come into the sanctuary and never make it in to the most holy where Jesus is waiting for us. Heck some never get out the vestibule

Are we as a church teaching the christian how to go out and reach the lost? How to build a solid pray life. We talk about pray out of school, heck it is not even in churches amymore. Are we equiping them with the Word/Sword to go out in the battle ground and war against the enemy? All I see lately is christians wanting God to bring the lost to the church. When did that become God responsibility?

Just food for thought, not meaning to knock anyone or the church.

[paul]

RamboPreacher

guess, my thought is s bit different. the conversions should be in the highways and biways. the workplace, at school, in the grocery store, etc...

I am not saying that there should be no salvation messages at church, but "Christians" already attend church. the "services" at church should be for teaching and discipling them.

I am not against salvation messages, but for many churches when there is nary a visitor, let alone an unsaved visitor for weeks, then the salvations messages are not very stimulating to the Christian "student". that is sitting in the pew wanting to know more about how they can live their every day life with and for God.l

I believe in my post I mentioned more than just salvation. The message of the cross goes far beyond just accepting Christ. the message of the cross is our very hope, for as Paul states if we have hope of this world only, then we are men most misarable.

The cross is our strength, it is our refuge. The cross is not the milk of the word of God but it is the very meat of the word. If our preaching is centered around the cross it will be there that are needs are meet.

It is because of the cross that I understand the unsearchable riches of Christ, where I understand he loved me which enables me to love.

Possibly the reason people no longer come to church is because their is no power, I am not just talking about the manifestations of the gifts. But the power of the cross to not only change us, but to impower us in this world. Where that loves become so powerful that the church actually becomes a community of believers that walks out the fullness of the world of God.

I have attend a church in my area from time to time. The pastor preaches the cross and salvation and the power of the cross every week. This is a Spirit Filled Church. He gives the same exact invitation every sunday almost word for word, (it is a 15 minute alter call) And every week over 100+ come to the alter to receive Christ. Why do hundereds of unbelievers come every week to this church and other churches never see a sinner come in its doors for years?

Their must be a reason. What is it ? Our message? Our Approach?

[one love]

Yes but the message does not stop at salvation. We are told to preach all that he has commanded. Sure we have to preach milk but also meat. Either way you have to teach your people the truth of his word, not just repentance alone.
Eph 4:11-14

11 And he gave some, apostles; and some, prophets; and some, evangelists; and some, pastors and teachers;

12 For the perfecting of the saints, for the work of the ministry, for the edifying of the body of Christ:

13 Till we all come in the unity of the faith, and of the knowledge of the Son of God, unto a perfect man, unto the measure of the stature of the fulness of Christ:

14 That we henceforth be no more children, tossed to and fro, and carried about with every wind of doctrine, by the sleight of men, and cunning craftiness, whereby they lie in wait to deceive;
KJV

[kurt73]

RamboPreacher

guess, my thought is s bit different. the conversions should be in the highways and biways. the workplace, at school, in the grocery store, etc...

I am not saying that there should be no salvation messages at church, but "Christians" already attend church. the "services" at church should be for teaching and discipling them.

I am not against salvation messages, but for many churches when there is nary a visitor, let alone an unsaved visitor for weeks, then the salvations messages are not very stimulating to the Christian "student". that is sitting in the pew wanting to know more about how they can live their every day life with and for God.l

I believe in my post I mentioned more than just salvation. The message of the cross goes far beyond just accepting Christ. the message of the cross is our very hope, for as Paul states if we have hope of this world only, then we are men most misarable.

The cross is our strength, it is our refuge. The cross is not the milk of the word of God but it is the very meat of the word. If our preaching is centered around the cross it will be there that are needs are meet.

It is because of the cross that I understand the unsearchable riches of Christ, where I understand he loved me which enables me to love.

Possibly the reason people no longer come to church is because their is no power, I am not just talking about the manifestations of the gifts. But the power of the cross to not only change us, but to impower us in this world. Where that loves become so powerful that the church actually becomes a community of believers that walks out the fullness of the world of God.

I have attend a church in my area from time to time. The pastor preaches the cross and salvation and the power of the cross every week. This is a Spirit Filled Church. He gives the same exact invitation every sunday almost word for word, (it is a 15 minute alter call) And every week over 100+ come to the alter to receive Christ. Why do hundereds of unbelievers come every week to this church and other churches never see a sinner come in its doors for years?

Their must be a reason. What is it ? Our message? Our Approach?

AMEN Brother!!!! I'm glad I'm not the only one that see it this way. If we look at Paul teaching, the message of the cross is in them all.

[Dr. Ron]

I don't understand the "why people don't come to church"...thing...maybe not YOUR church, but we are still reaching people. We are not huge, and we have those who come and go, but we are still reaching people.

Power in the church???? What does that mean???? We have miracles all the time and most of them are not in the church.......

You guys must be stuck in some "looking backward"...thing...lol

In the words of that great theologian Sarah Palin, " See, there you go again, looking backwards".

[kurt73]

very good input from everyone.