I need some advice.

[TC]

I know someone who is a minister and is full time in the ministry. there was an affair and a child was born of this affair. This happened several years ago. I am not sure if he as told his wife of this child but I know most people who have known him all his life do not know about the affair or the Child.

I am fairly sure that he has never seen this child, he has never given any support for this child. I have known for a few years but I have not seen him since I found out.

I got a message he was coming thru town and wanted to "have lunch" I do think he knows I know now. While I do not think it is everyones business about the affair or the Child but I do think that as a minister it is wrong for him not to support this child. While I could never have a child and not see it that is between him and the mother. But I just don't you could be a Christian and not support your children much less a minister.

My question is do I bring this up if he does not? I don't think I could sit in a service with him doing anything and not feel bad about it.

Am I wrong on this? Should I just let it go or speak up?

[dolfan]

Ask yourself:

What do I know? How do I know it? Think hard about the answers.

If you don't have first hand information from one of the principals involved, I'd let it go. Otherwise, you're dealing with second-hand info, and that falls into the old CCR song that says, "people say believe half of what you see, son, and none of what you hear." That may not be completely accurate, but it is accurate enough that it's good advice to steer clear of it.

And, even if you THINK you have first-hand information of that type, you need to verify it/corroborate it, and then you need to reconsider it like 5 times, prayerfully, before saying anything. Opinions are harmless, but a false word cannot be recalled, even if only between friends.

[TC]

I do know it is true, without a doubt. I just don't see myself not saying something because he will ask if I am going to hear him and when I say no he will ask and I will not lie to him.

to me the worst part is I respected him as a minister and as a friend. everyone makes mistakes that is not what bothers me. I can somewhat understand not seeing the child if both parents thought it was best. but to not support in any way to me is just wrong. if it was maybe right after the birth... maybe he was still in denial but after several years to me that is sinful at the very least.

am I the only one who thinks it is sinful?

[free]

Did the woman who had the child agree or tell him that she did not want any support? Not saying it's right but is there more to this that I'm missing?

If this person is a friend I think you should be able to be open and honest with him and still maintain your friendship.

[deb]

As free questioned, he and the mother may have agreed that she didn't want him to have any part in the child's life. If he were paying child support, the wife would know about it - or else how could he explain the payments. As I typed that last sentence, I decided - never mind, people who lie, find more ways to cover up their lies.

The problem with him is that he has to live with this knowledge the rest of his life, and if the wife doesn't know about it, he is living a lie with her. Eventually, I think it will be brought to light; if it hasn't already.

Perhaps she does already know, and that is why he wants to have lunch with you; he probably senses your offense, and wants to set the record right with you (I'll be praying that way).

[Pianoman]

If he brings it up - I wouldn't see anything wrong
with asking?

You haven't mentioned (or I haven't been able to tell)
how well you know the mother & the circumstances
and/or what her feelings are. I'm assumming if she
had wanted child support - she could have sought it
legally?

I'm of the notion as several others - perhaps she
didn't want support (or want him to have contact with
the child). I had a lady co-worker who was of that
notion. She told the father if he would leave her
& the child alone - she wouldn't ask for any money.
She didn't want to have to toss the child back & forth
for weekend visits, holidays, etc. He was a drifter &
floated between several cities several hours apart &
she knew it would be a difficult life. She also knew
he was very immature & didn't trust him to keep
a watchful eye on the child. She let him see the child
a couple times after he was born - then he moved
about 2 hours away & she hasn't seen him since.

[dolfan]

I I just don't see myself not saying something because he will ask if I am going to hear him and when I say no he will ask and I will not lie to him.

If he tells you, then you will have heard it from one of the principals first hand. That's my point. What to do with that information? Well, what are your options? Tell him he's wrong? Okay, so let's say you tell him that. I'm sure that'll be an epiphany for him. The question is not so much what you will do if he admits it, but what he'll do, given that it is true. For now, I'd just hear him, and I wouldn't tell him that I would do anything or not do anything. He knows what is right and what is wrong. His own conscience informs him of it if it is true. You telling him you already know what he admits to you is not going to accomplish much.

If he asks you about it, then he's the one who brought it up. I'd wait for a direct question that is just bluntly opening that door before ponying up with "yeah, I already knew that...". Even then, if that happened, I'd weigh the actual, known benefit to the child involved against the turmoil that might be caused by a confrontation. If the real aim is the child's welfare, you need to know every single thing about that kid and his/her life, including the mother's wishes and situation as explained by her to you, before even telling him what you think about HIM and what he should do.

Based on what you've stated, I see no reason at all to light a stick of dynamite on this thing based on your own personal need to feel comfortable sitting under his preaching. If that's your itch, don't sit and listen to him preach. Just leave in silence. The potential for harm is far greater than the benefit to be derived, here. Walk very carefully.

[Pianoman]

Great note Dolfan! That's what I was thinking as well
(but didn't have time to write!).

[TC]

I have several ask and no this is not a CoGoP or CoG person. I don't think anyone on here knows him or the mother. BUT I will say to me it does not matter who you are, what church you are a member or attend if you have a child and do not support that child. To me you are not a Christian.

I am supposed to talk to the mom later tonight.

[stevenson]

TC,
I had a similiar situation once. Someone was on a forum bragging about someone and their ministry and how great they are. I know that this fella fathered a child by a lady then denied it was his. It made me sick as someone bragged about how great this person is when I know what I know. But I kept my mouth shut and never posted in that forum. And I will never say who it is. Why? Cuz, it's between him, the mother of the child and God. What's done in the dark will come to light someday.

[Gerald Creasy]

Why is this even a question?

A man who fathers a child and dosent support it is a Maggot.

A Minister who does such should be pilloried, defrocked and horsewhipped.

[Mike Vande]

Shut up and mind y'own bidness. You can pray for the preacher, the mother, and the child, but beyond that, leave it alone.

I read a story about a letter David Wilkerson recieved from a teenager. It seems she found out that her best friend was sneaking out of her parent's house nights to run aroundg with one of the rottenest boys in town. She told her friend she knew, and tried to talk her out of seeing the guy. Her friend refused, and said she didn't care what she thought, she was gonna do what she wanted. THe teenager asked Wilkerson if he thought she should tell on her friend, and he replied nope, it ain't up to you to convict her of her sins. The Bible says "You sin will find you out". Eventually, the girl would repent or get caught. In either case, it was up to God to deal with the girl, not her. He isn't asleep, nor has His arm gotten any shorter.

I agree with Gerald that a preacher who refuses to support his children, in or out of his house, shouldn't be in the ministry. He might deserve the other things Brother Creasey specified, maybe worse. But before we limber up the bullwhip, let's rememeber we don't know all that's going on there. It wouldn't be the first time I ever heard of a woman refusing to allow an illegitimate father to give her anything, and/or disallowing any participation from him in raising/supporting the child. For all we know from what you wrote, that might be the case here. At least nothing I read would put it out of consideration.

Certainly, if she wanted to she could take him to the cleaners by way of the courthouse. The courts have it in for deadbeat dads these days, and he wouldn't have a leg to stand on if she she took him to court. One blood test and he's on a court-monitored and enforced payment schedule till the child's emancipated. If she isn't doing that, maybe she doesn't want to, for whatever reason, and that's her decision, not yours. Or Gerald's.

There are a lot of scenarios that could be playing out, and all you can do is speculate about what's happening unless and until your friend decides to inform you further. If you couldn't sit through a service with him preaching, don't go to hear him preach, not until after God convicts you, and you repent of your unforgiveness towards him. So get off your brother's back and mind y'own bidness, at least until God tells you otherwise.

[TC]

just talked to the mom, Yes she is the mom and he is the dad.

She took him to court to prove it, because he said over and over she was lying and that the affair never happend and that he was not the dad. When he was taken to court he did not show up. The court contacted him and said he was to be in court on a specific day.

He said he could not be there because he had a revival scheduled in another state that week. He was then told by the court if he was not there they would file a bench warrant and they had no problem having the local law pull him out of the pulpit and cuff him. He came to court the female judge ripped him saying that it was shameful for him to have to be dragged into court. To prove it was not his child. She told him you are under oath and you have sworn to tell the truth. I am goning to ask you once if you had sexual relations with this young lady. If you tell me no and a DNA test proves you are the father, you will not be happy and you might need to start up a prison ministry. He then admitted the sex but not the child. She ordered the test. He is the father.

At the second court date, the judge ripped him like crazy. He said he did not want anything to do with the child and signed away all parental rights. Which is what the mother wanted The mother thought when he signed away his rights she was not allowed to support. The judge told her she still was. The mother said, "making" him pay money would end up being just more problems and that as a Christian he should do it on his own. The judge said he was a disgrace as a Christian and even more as a minister. She said she could not force her to file for support but she said that if the mother ever got to the point she needed it she could file and get back pay all the way to the birth. And at the very least he should be setting up a college fund. He said he only makes enough to support his ministry.

The mother has never tried to hide it, she was not a Christian at the time, Her family was not Christians. She said she told her daughter that she was a gift from God and that her father did not want to be a father. She does not say who the father is but if out and out asked she will say. Someone else told me this a few years ago. I never thought to much about it, thought I was missinformed. I saw her about a year ago and I just said. If this is not my business just say so, but I want to know is _____ the father of your daughter. She said yes. I asked does he see her or support her. She said he has never seen her or supported her.

So she is not out trashing him, She is just trying to get on with her life.

She told me that the reason she told me all of this because the both of us (him and myself) were friends and she felt I had the right to know how my friend portrayed Christ and other Christians.

I am supposed to see him sunday. I think he knows I know because almost since the day I found out, I barely hear from him. I can not go hear someone preach who I think is so wrong. Some on here have called out the Todd guy about what he was preaching. To me this guy is 10 times worst. all I can think of is "the least of these" I could never see anyone not taking care of their kids, much less a so called Christian and Minister. He is actually lucky that I am not wanting to cause a scene. He is preaching to some of my friends and I don't like the fact that "WHEN" others find this out, (because it will come out it always does) they will be thinking there it again Christians being worst than the sinners.

thanks for the comments, it has given alot to think about.

[Gerald Creasy]

I will reiterate: This guy is a maggot.

I'd be tempted to find his "revival" schedule and mail out copies of the court records to the pastors.

[jessicacook]

My heart breaks for this child. To know that your dad doesn't want anything to do with you, is one of the hardest things ever. (take it from someone who knows) Especially if this child is a girl. Little girls need their daddys just as much as boys do. It's a sad situation.