I am grieved tonight

[Pastor Gary]

You'll have to allow me to vent tonight, since it's my board!

I am grieved tonight. It's Sunday night, and I am pretty heartsick and discouraged. Oh, not over the service today, or even things in general at our church... I am heartsick over my own failure.

I have, apparently, failed in my attempt to persistently and consistently teach what it looks like, and sounds like, and feels like to live a Christlike life and live sanctified -- set apart -- from the world. There is a cancer spreading among our youth. A spiritual cancer of compromise, lack of understanding of the essence of holiness, an affection for the world... a shallowness of the Spirit and a casual attitude toward the enticements of Satan.

I am frightened. I am disappointed. I am, frankly, hurt.

I have invested my life in our youth. I have structured my church around our youth. I have spent the past 25+ years working with youth, directing camps, teaching, preaching and counseling young people to focus on Jesus... that the world has nothing to offer them, that they are chosen, His beloved (as we sang in our service today) and that they are to put the things, the desires, of this world behind them (1 john 2:15-17) and live holy lives. The latest trick of the enemy, the current enticement? The club scene.

I confess: I can only speak from second-hand knowledge, because I have never been clubbing. When I was a younger man I made a choice, stepped over from darkness into light, and the world no longer held any enticement for me. The things that once looked fun, glamorous and desirable lost their pull --- I started to see them clearly, through spiritual eyes, and recognized them for the trap they were. But, even second-hand, from a distance, I know that the club atmosphere does not glorify God, does not foster spiritual growth, does not promote abstinence and sobriety. Some of our younger people see no problem with spending their weekends going clubbing; some have no problem justifying having a few drinks. Have we fallen so far from our Wesleyan-Holiness roots that people who grew up in our Children's Churches, Youth Groups and Camps are blinded to the spiritual perils of compromise and playing on the enemies' home field?

Part of my role as a Pastor and an Overseer is to identify, disciple and release emerging leaders in order to perpetuate and expand our movement and build upon our labors. Perhaps God is "thinning the herd" or reducing the pool of possibilities to Gideon's Army... if so, we, as leaders, need to sharpen our vision and discernment; God will test those with leadership potential, but not all will pass the test! He will bypass those who find the way too narrow and the standards too high, and He will raise up the most unlikely, the most unqualified and humble to take their place. (1 Peter 5:5)

I know: there are those among us here on this board who will think this rant is ridiculous, and write magnificent justifications of the consumption of alcohol. I have seen the alleged scriptural justifications, and I am not interested in clever debate over them. Here's the bottom line for me; I am watching young people who were once passionate, committed, closely following Jesus... and as they have drifted into "freedom" and decided they are just as saved as ever, they are just having fun, and there's no harm in what they are doing, they have become less interested in church, looser in their language, accepting of all kinds of other unGodly lifestyle issues, and, in general, so far from separated and set apart that you couldn't pick them out as a follower of Jesus in a lineup.

I am sickened. I am saddened. I am praying for a revival of holiness and asking God to raise up a generation of young people who hate sin and don't enjoy partying with it.

That's it. I am off my soapbox now. I feel better for saying it.

Let the disparagement begin.

[Shellie]

All I can say is that you have voiced everything I have been feeling and experiencing even in my own home.

My two girls, ages 21 and 18, listen to ungodly music, are way too accepting of vulgar language, and think there is nothing wrong with going to clubs or bars as long as they don't drink.

I wonder if they were here in the same home for the last 20 years. You are not alone in being heartsick, I can assure you.

[free]

Pastor G you're not the only pastor who feels this way...It seems to be epedimic around our nation. I have beat myself up more than once wondering what I did wrong or what did I not do.

I too am praying for that revival of holiness.

[deb]

PastorGary wrote:

Let the disparagement begin.

I don't see how anyone could belittle what you wrote Pastor Gary. I think what you are describing is widespread and your feelings are a natural godly response.

Your last statement should be the prayer of all Christians:

I am praying for a revival of holiness and asking God to raise up a generation of young people who hate sin and don't enjoy partying with it.

[dolfan]

I'm no pastor, and my daughter's only about to be 5, but I feel that burden, too. In our store business, we have mostly young employees, 18-24 age bracket. Their friends shop with us, too. Their lifestyles are just insane. And, not only do they not care, they think it is good. We watch the news and see rampant violence among young people (and older, too, mind you), the exaltation of vice and the discard of virtue --- and the replacement of one as the other --- and come to the inescapable conclusion that there is simply nothing to do with it. But, you can't give up, either.

(As an aside, I know I've stated my beliefs on alcohol consumption, at least on a total abstinence required by Scripture vs. not required by Scripture point of view. I hope I've been clear enough about that, though, that it no one thinks I'm a "winebibber". My consumption is almost nothing, so rare and so small, and when done, with an eye against the very dangers that the Bible warns. I wish I was as diligent about my overall consumption of everything else!! That said, PG, you are spot on with your grief about this. If there was a rare indulgence that had no bearing on the overall lifestyles of your youth (assuming they're 21), I doubt you'd even mention alcohol; but the fact is, there it is, and you have to be honest about it and can't pretend it isn't a major part of the problem. No debate from me, for sure.)


Where is the solution? We can go all day long with platitudes about how Jesus is the solution. And, He is. Although I have my own thoughts on how we can organize our lives around Him and what He says, I'm no closer to His ideals for us than anyone is. If any of you has an answer from experience, I'd love it if you'd share it.

[Dr. Ron]

Gee, I thought I was the only failure on this board.

The attitude of which you speak is not a local issue for you. It is widespread.

In my casting of Vision 2020, I hit this very hard. The statistics have shown that 70% of HS graduates, upon entering college, do not return to their religious roots. I have determined that we must begin with our 1st graders and work through the next generation. We MUST establish them in more than what we gave the last generation.

YOung people are no longer "product loyal". They don't see a big difference in "churches" or what they stand for. They don't experience christians as we once did. They are raised in a very high tech society that is hard for us to keep a lid on.....

If I told you all of the issues I deal with in my youth group alone, and with young clients, it would boggle your mind.

There needs to be a national cleansing of many things. We need to not just preach and teach Holiness...but practice a "practical holiness" ( I know that phrase will draw criticism). We need to show a holy life that can be lived out in a non-holy world...

This board is the only internet thing I do. I don't wander around in cyber-space....have no interest. And yet here, with all the love and caring, a young person can lurk and see us sometimes being very unloving and unkind without a spirit of humility.....without a spirit of "loving one another as Christ loved us".

I feel for you my brother........and I share your hurt and grief.

[Russell Roberts]

LOL!

Well, think about C.S. Lewis and Tolkein. They were 'clubbers' and they turned out all right huh?

What the heck is 'holiness' anyhow? What does it look like? Am I holy if I keep my hair a certain length? Quit dippin' snuff and drinking beer? Is that REALLY what makes me holy?

[n2jesus]

Pastor Gary that was such a great way of expressing what many Christians today are feeling about the condition of our youth...

God help us!!!

My little 2 cents worth...Holiness is a condition of the heart, that manifests itself in our outward way of life from the things we desire, to the way we dress, to the attitudes we display...Holiness stems from an intimate relationship with Christ...It comes no other way...We don't have the ability to live a righteous life without the cleansing power of his blood...And I have noticed that in general people have lost their fear of God, the respect of his ways, and some of our christian leadership have lost the backbone to preach it straight...ALL decisions we make have consequences, they aren't my consequences, they are God's...If my daily desire is to please the Lord in everything that I say and do, I will choose the right things to say, do, go, wear, etc...If I am modest in my lifestyle, but I am jealous, envious, spiteful and all other ungodly attitudes, then I have missed it too...You can't dress up a bad heart no matter what you do...If I turn pale, lips are blue, profusely sweating, faint, then you are going to be concerned with my natural heart....Well the spiritual heart is no different, all outward manifestations come from the heart...There are times as Christians we become keenly aware that if we don't get alone with God, a weakness we are dealing with is going to take root in our heart, so we again go to our knees asking for God to help us with this area in our life...We don't stop anywhere along the way needing God to maintain a pure heart within us....If I fail or am slack in any of the areas Pastor Gary is referring to, it's an obvious sign of a void in the relationship with Christ...It doesn't matter what we say with our lips, our actions are telling off on us...It's time to get back to the basics of real, true, heartfelt repentence...A complete turning away from the world and taking up our cross and following Christ...Our life is not our own, we were bought with a price and we are to honor him with our entire being....It's through Christ that I am able to say no to the things of this world!!!!!!!!!And what it seems our youth don't understand, is with Christ the world loses it's appeal...

Again great post Pastor Gary!

[Pastorbps]

Pastor Gary:
There are so many of the issues you've raised here which should burden us all. A book could be written on each of these subjects. I have 2 children around 20 years old so I know the challenges and I share the concern of all the parents on this board.

We can pass on knowledge and even set an example but we can't pass on passion for God. Each generation must discover that for themselves. Our kids are challenged on so many levels not just by an explosion in entertainment and sexual laxity but by a Christianity which offers forms of grace. There is the grace to live right and the grace to live wrong. One uses grace as a safety net while one offers it as a bungee cord. One offers liberty to sin while one offers liberty from sin. One path requires sacrifice and self-denial while the other offers freedom to live carnally. We have exasperated the problem by promoting a "oneness" among all professing believers which has led our children to believe both paths lead to the same place. Instead of challenging them to follow life in the Spirit and self-denial we have attempted to compete for their attention on a fleshly level. We offer cappacinos and soft drinks while they watch laser shows and explosions of smoke. I understand we use these things to get them to listen but are we telling them what they need to hear while they're there or have we been satisfied just to have them there. Carnal methods may bring a kid to church but only an encounter with Christ, a death on the altar, can keep a kid on the right path.

We need a holiness revival which is where the Pentecostal revival of the 20th century came from. Many on this forum have bemoaned the lack of integrity, the excess, and fraudulent gifts which have crept into Pentecostalism. It comes from an emphasis on Pentecost while abandoning an emphasis on holiness. You take holiness out of Pentecost and you get a strange fire. Pentecostalism didn't come to replace holiness but to build on it and even as a result of it. We need to rediscover our roots.

Irthenvsl asked what holiness is. It is separation and consecration to God and the purity of life which goes with it. It's about a passion for God, a recognition of His ownership, and a determination to be like Him. Holiness erases worldliness. It focuses on the eternal at the sacrifice of the temporal. I have been designated as God's and now I'm determined to live as one who is so designated.

Here are two questions people should be asking.
What is worldliness?
What did Jude mean about "turning the grace of God into lasciviousness?"

[MacUser]

Thanks PG. Praying for you to remain effective and determined.

We need a Revival regardless.. for everyone! From the old perfected religious elders to the wayward youth.

We have to also remember.. we are the examples and that the youth tend to mirror what they see from authority figures ( They clearly see all the power plays, anger, manipulation and religious garbage in our Churches also ) . I say review the leadership areas also. Restructure the entire setup if you want change.

We need a revival for ALL.

[pastorables]

I am sickened. I am saddened. I am praying for a revival of holiness and asking God to raise up a generation of young people who hate sin and don't enjoy partying with it.

Outstanding survey of my current grief concerning worldliness and holiness. Thank you. You are not alone.

God bless,
pa

[forestwalker]

Have you considered observing Lent this year with your congregation, or at least the youth?

[Pianoman]

Pastor Gary,

I was watching the Dugger Family Marathon this weekend:
17 Kids and Counting on TLC. I know a lot of folks may
make fun of their values - but I really wander if these
folks are not living closer to the mark than we really
give them credit for.

The oldest son got engaged & they (the kids) decided
that they wanted to refrain from kissing until their
wedding day & any dates they went on would always
includes a chaperon (or another couple). By today's
standards this may seem extreme - but is this truly
that bad? The children's take was that they were doing
this of their own choice, not their parents - although
their parents had been very candid about their dating
experiences & this played a big part in their choices.
(Mom Dugger had a few boyfriends before Mr. Dugger
and he claims she brought some extra baggage from
those relationships with her. He is an advocate of
limiting dating to only someone you feel you are
truly going to spend the rest of your life with).

The mother made the statement that folks had accused
her of forcing the kids to live a sheltered life (little
TV, Internet filters, homeschooling, etc.) - but she said
she said something to the fact that she really felt she was
giving them a strong root system so that when they were
transplanted to a more harsh environment - they would
have a strong foundation.

Our world is so permeated with filth that it is truly hard
to live in the world and not of the world with such easy
accessibility as we've got any more (TV, Internet, etc.)
Things that used to be considered perverted are now
pretty much every day occurrences - almost to the point
that we're impervious to them.

One thing I've found funny on the show - they've got a
cousin that now visits them quite frequently (she almost
seems like the "black sheep" of the family - although by
today's standards she is pretty much an exceptional kid).
She wears pants, big hoop earings, and carries an MP3
player that has rock & roll on it. It's been interesting to
see her take on everything.

[Poimen]

I can totally relate. As a state and regional Youth Ministries leader, etc., for years in a small organization I had a fairly close relationship with many of the youth under my direction. I often saw some of the youth grow cold and drift away, despite our efforts to prevent it.

May I suggest you lead the revival there by preaching with heavy emphasis on holiness. And shore that up with teaching on practical holiness with real to life examples of issues where they must put holiness into practice. (Dr. Ron that term is perfectly fine and biblical sound, no worries here!). It may be time to re-evangelize some of these youth by pulling them from the fire instead of by compassion as before.

Of course, I'm not there. These are only my sincere and initial reflections for your consideration and prayer time. He will lead you in the path you must take. Of that I am sure.

Remember, "They that plant in tears shall reap in joy!"

[Brian]

LOL!

Well, think about C.S. Lewis and Tolkein. They were 'clubbers' and they turned out all right huh?

What the heck is 'holiness' anyhow? What does it look like? Am I holy if I keep my hair a certain length? Quit dippin' snuff and drinking beer? Is that REALLY what makes me holy?

Please, irthnvesl, don't think what I am about to say is a personal attack against you because it is not. However, I can't help to notice that you stand alone in your conclusion that it doesn't matter what outward expression you manifest, that it plays no bearing on the reflection of your spiritual condition. I think that most people would agree that it most certainly does.

I'm not suggesting that we should live under the cloak of legalism. But there definately is A WAY and it's not any way.

God bless