Grieved over eating Chocolate.

[Dr. Ron]

Okay.....

1. Don't be mean to anyone
2. Say thank you and please
3. Stay in line....don't skip
4. Keep your hands to yourself
5. Don't touch the girl's hair
6. Leave your pencil on the desk until you are told to write
7. Don't pick your nose in public
8. Sit up straight
9. Walk on the right side of the hallway
10. Come back to your assigned seats.


Now folks.....what we have hear is a failure to communicate. I appreciate Pastor Gary's post.....I responded in kind. I feel the burden for the kids like he and the others here. I work hard to try to balance the need to reach kids and the willingness to compromise the gospel for their sake. I invest time, effort, money, tears, sweat, and if necessary....blood. I would die for these kids....and their parents.....whoever and whatever.

This is not the issue and is not what our friend was making light of.
Poor taste is not a sin.....regrettably. Intelligent people are the worst at recognizing taste. They have a tendency to think in different spheres of thought.

Our friend hit a nerve with his post. Yes, I could see how it might have been recieved as grossly disrespectfull. However, he did hit a nerve with many. The world is soooooo out of touch with God.....we are so out of touch with God as a people, that we seem only to view revival and returning to some abstract of what we once considered the "holy" and or "Godly" way to live.

dolfan got it. He really saw the essence of it all. It's not about whether one goes clubbing, drinks a beer....etc. I have had clients whose kids were clubbing but the parents didn't know it because they were too busy with their tailgate parties at the Titans games. To the kid, there is not difference....just different likes and dislikes.

What this post is trying to say (albeit tasteless..we have all agreed on that one) is "holiness" is not about dos and don'ts .....it about heart issues. Who is Lord of the life? Who is master of the ship? Our mandate to "live like Christ" is an ongoing process.....it will never end.

I have preached for over 40 years. I have never preached a beer can out of someone's hand or a cig out of their mouths...or a needle out of their arm. Whether I preach against or for something means very little .....and this is based on a lifetime of experience. I HAVE convinced people to let Christ be real to them ......and as a result.......change has occured.

I invite you to stay my friend......you can insult me anytime....maybe you might just be the thorn in the flesh some of us need...

[Russell Roberts]

Dr. Ron,

Thank you brother. You are kind and insightful.

[scooter]

I have preached for over 40 years. I have never preached a beer can out of someone's hand or a cig out of their mouths...or a needle out of their arm. Whether I preach against or for something means very little .....and this is based on a lifetime of experience. I HAVE convinced people to let Christ be real to them ......and as a result.......change has occured.

Response: The only difference is Mud Jug sees no need for change.

I invite you to stay my friend......you can insult me anytime....maybe you might just be the thorn in the flesh some of us need...

Response: Aren't thorns messengers of satan?

[oletimer]

Obviously, this is not to the exclusion of asking whether we are pleasing in God's sight but what is the defining characteristic of a CHRISTIAN? It simply isn't whether one drinks beer, shaves his head, sits on top of a pole, gives up cigarettes, or tap dances on a tulip.

I have been around long enough to know when there has been a bull in the pasture. There has been one in the pasture. After your first post I stopped reading because I felt that you had an agenda and it didn’t smell right. Your “beer” post was a total let down. I’ve seen the results of beer drinking, cigarettes, and other things that will have a hold on a person physical and mental condition. Neither you nor anybody else can twist the Word of God to convince me that these things or Ok.

What I see is an attempt by you to justify your sins and get everybody to jump on the band wagon with you. This is my own opinion, but I don’t see Christ in you. When I came to Christ there was a change made in my life. People could see that change in me. Funny that you talk of Holiness out of one side of your mouth and advocate sins from the other. The things that you advocate are the things that I did or might would do when I was backslide. Now think about that.

It simply isn't whether one drinks beer, shaves his head, sits on top of a pole, gives up cigarettes, or tap dances on a tulip.

Boy are you sooo wrong on this one. It does matter because the outward man is a direct refection of the inward man. Get it, it’s the inward man that guys the outward man. Change the inward man and the outward man is changed.

As you know from my post on another thread, I often feel like a failure too in my attempts to convey the meaning of scripture.

Don’t you mean your idealism and what you want people to believe?

Jesus said the world would know his disciples by their LOVE. Does the world see LOVE in our actions? Honestly, people are sick and tired of being condemned by the Church for the length of their hair or whether they drink coffee. If that is what Christianity was all about, I wouldn't want to be one.

This love that you talk about is a must. But it not only relates to other, but also to the Almighty and Holy God. You don’t have to be saved to love others. If you are saved then you will love others.

1Pe 4:17 For the time is come that judgment must begin at the house of God: and if it first begin at us, what shall the end be of them that obey not the gospel of God?

You got me here too brother. That is the message I have conveyed. We Christians are a hopeless lot.

You maybe, but I don’t feel hopeless. As a matter of fact I’ve never felt more hope in my life then I feel right now and see that hope in all my brothers and sisters. We do have hope, because we have faith in God and His word. Those of us that still believe in living a clean and holy life do have joy in our life.

I don’t what you conceive as Christianity, but it don’t fit the mold of Christianity that so many of us know.

I don’t mean to be mean spirited, but sometime you just got it all out. Believe me I have tried to stay out of your post because I knew I would do this. My prayers are for you, not with you.

[Gerald Creasy]

I would like to jump in here briefly and point out that today is National Chocolate Day.

All Day Oct 28th.

So grab some chocolate: white chocolate, milk chocolate, semisweet chocolate, bittersweet chocolate

Any type will do.

Except for "Special Dark" I'm told that day will be Nov 4th.

[Russell Roberts]

I would like to jump in here briefly and point out that today is National Chocolate Day.

All Day Oct 28th.

So grab some chocolate: white chocolate, milk chocolate, semisweet chocolate, bittersweet chocolate

Any type will do.

Except for "Special Dark" I'm told that day will be Nov 4th.

I think I will look for some scriptural support to JUSTIFY eating some DARK CHOCOLATE

[sweetpea]

I think I would give this topic a rest.

[MrDanger]

Except for "Special Dark" I'm told that day will be Nov 4th.

That's too funny

[ichthus]

For the life of me, I can't see any comparison between alcohol and chocolate.

One is dangerous, the other is not.

If alcohol is identical to chocolate in it's neutrality why is the Bible FULL of warnings about it's abuse and nothing about chocolate?

Chocolate causes no horrible auto accidents.
Children are not abused as a result of chocolate.
Children do not go hungry because their dad used up his paycheck on chocolate.
The abuse of chocolate does not cause thousands of deaths every year.
There are no chocolate addicts laying in the streets and gutters trembling for their next fix.

Their are no clubs built around the consumption of chocolate where people consume so much chocolate that they loose control of their morals and their inhibitions. There are no chocolate clubs with sinful, sensual music with horrible immoral lyrics and filthy degrading words and profanity, all geared to lower resistence and where there is an atmosphere of sexual promiscuity and lust in the feel of the place an dthe emotions of the people. A sense of unbridled sensuality and a desire to throw off all restraints, an "if it feels good do it" attitude.

Alcohol has all of those things.

EVEN THE SECULAR WORLD IS NOT AS DOPEY AS SOME LIBERAL VIEWS PROMOTED IN CHRISTIANITY: After all, secular society has very strict and precise laws involving the use of alcohol (Not just abuse, but even the USE). Laws that restrict it's "freedom" of usage. The last time I checked there were no laws governing the use and abuse of chocolate in secular society.


Sorry, but that post comparing the two did not involve much clear intelligent thinking.

[Kenya]

Okay, now I've read the post. I see what he was trying to do and don't necessarily disagree with the point he is trying to make. I do think it was in bad taste, but it wouldn't be the first or last post in bad taste around here.

I like people who challenge my thinking. I just finished reading "They Like Jesus But Not the Church" and believe it should be required reading for all Christians who attend church. We've really got to get with the program people. We are wasting time trying to figure out what's wrong and what isn't. Let God sort that out. Let's just love them.

[Russell Roberts]

oletimer,

You might find this to be ironic brother...but I really have a feeling of affinity towards you. I really like you even though we disagree. I perceive in you a real desire to please God. You might not believe this but so do I. We see things a little differently but that's ok.

What I really like about you is that you are respectful and kind even though you disagree with me and don't view life from my perspective. We might not ever agree on a variety of issues but I love your heart brother (I hope you don't mind me calling you brother). I can tell that you love and want to please God.

I probably say a lot of things that irritate you. I hope that you don't stop reading my posts just because we believe differently. As you said, God loves people like me too. We will probably never agree on some issues. But I count you as a precious and valued brother, even if we don't see eye to eye. Bless you oletimer.

[Jennifer Smith]

Let's all put it to rest... I'd be happy to vault it! If there is a consensus.

[oletimer]

Jennifer Smith Posted:

Let's all put it to rest... I'd be happy to vault it! If there is a consensus.

OK: It does kinda remines me of a traveling saleman standing in your door with his foot blocking the door open.

[Russell Roberts]

Let's all put it to rest... I'd be happy to vault it! If there is a consensus.

Jen, Pastor Gary is agin it. His philiosophy is to keep things that reflect negatively and positively about various posters including himself. I think I like this practice as it shows a progression in fleshing things out within the body of Christ (as if somebody will ever review our posts for posterity's sake). LOL. Sorta reminds me of the statement by our beloved president in the movie "W" (which I did pay to see) - "We'll be dead in history".

[Pastor Gary]

Let's all put it to rest... I'd be happy to vault it! If there is a consensus.

Jen, Pastor Gary is agin it. His philiosophy is to keep things that reflect negatively and positively about various posters including himself. I think I like this practice as it shows a progression in fleshing things out within the body of Christ (as if somebody will ever review our posts for posterity's sake). LOL. Sorta reminds me of the statement by our beloved president in the movie "W" (which I did pay to see) - "We'll be dead in history".

I'd prefer not to vault this or other posts, even if, as IRTHENVSL points out, they reflect badly upon me. I like the way the back and forth here eventually results in accommodation at least, and respect between those who disagree.

Please don't think I have anything against IRTHENVSL --- not in the slightest. He can take me to Ruth's Chris and buy me the best steak in the house!