Church s(hopping)

[Jennifer Smith]

Many of you know we have been church s(hopping) for the past month and a half... two churches we have visited have had some major to minor problems. So Sunday we tried a new one.

Everything seemed just great- wonderful worship, a great freedom and awesome presence of the Lord. They have an anointed, talented worship leader, and they are lucky to have him. All was going well, until the worship leader concluded praise and worship by having the men come up for prayer. My husband returned to his seat looking stiff and uncomfortable. When I asked what was wrong, he said, "There are bad spirits here." He had discerned a heavy spiritual problem with the pastor and also that many others in the church were being influenced by a Jezebel spirit. It didn't take long to note that several women in the front were behaving very conspicuously, and they weren't the only ones.

Now don't get me wrong, I don't want to go to church there.... unless God showed us clearly that we should try to help. But at first I said, "Are you sure? I need to find a place."

Later someone prayed with me and she said, "the Lord says you're concerned about your place. He says, "You have your place. Your place is in Me." I hadn't told her my concern; but, I felt so much better.

Church s(hopping) isn't really fun, but we're on a journey and going in the direction God has for us and I praise the Lord tremendously.

(Keep that church in your prayers, many lovely people there. It is a shame there are those problems.)

[Brenda]

Church s(hopping) isn't really fun, but we're on a journey and going in the direction God has for us and I praise the Lord tremendously.

I agree with you completly Jennifer. My husband and I were on the same journey a little over 2 1/2 years ago.
Its funny we used the same identical words that you used here. We were on a journey and going in the direction God had for us. And your correct its not fun.
When you get there the Lord will let you know..even if its only a journey to find out what God is trying to tell you or reveal to you.
Just remember all things work together for good.
God has a purpose in it..we found that out.

[Russell Roberts]

The Jezebel spirit? Is that something like the spirit of Leviathan? That is so dadgum weird. A couple of weeks ago I got attacked by a spirit of heebie jeebie right when I walked into a Baptist Church. That sucker threw me to the ground like a red headed step child but the pastor pulled it off of me. Gotta watch them spirits.

As if THAT weren't enough, a woman at the front had on very heavy mascera - a sure sign of demonic possession. And another guy looked really sad. That place was just plain creepy. I'm never going back in there again you can rest assured of that.

[Pastor Gary]

The Jezebel spirit? Is that something like the spirit of Leviathan? That is so dadgum weird. A couple of weeks ago I got attacked by a spirit of heebie jeebie right when I walked into a Baptist Church. That sucker threw me to the ground like a red headed step child but the pastor pulled it off of me. Gotta watch them spirits.

As if THAT weren't enough, a woman at the front had on very heavy mascera - a sure sign of demonic possession. And another guy looked really sad. That place was just plain creepy. I'm never going back in there again you can rest assured of that.

Okay -- and I don't mean this to be insulting -- I gotta ask: Since you reject traditional Wesleyan-Holiness theology pretty much completely, practice things generally not acceptable in xCOGx denominational polity, and find the belief in various kinds of spirits ridiculous, why on EARTH, of all the churches in your area, did you choose a COG to attend???

[Russell Roberts]

The Jezebel spirit? Is that something like the spirit of Leviathan? That is so dadgum weird. A couple of weeks ago I got attacked by a spirit of heebie jeebie right when I walked into a Baptist Church. That sucker threw me to the ground like a red headed step child but the pastor pulled it off of me. Gotta watch them spirits.

As if THAT weren't enough, a woman at the front had on very heavy mascera - a sure sign of demonic possession. And another guy looked really sad. That place was just plain creepy. I'm never going back in there again you can rest assured of that.

Okay -- and I don't mean this to be insulting -- I gotta ask: Since you reject traditional Wesleyan-Holiness theology pretty much completely, practice things generally not acceptable in xCOGx denominational polity, and find the belief in various kinds of spirits ridiculous, why on EARTH, of all the churches in your area, did you choose a COG to attend???

Well Pastor Gary, I would tell you, but then I'd have to kill you. I'm sworn to secrecy.

Just kidding. I had done an appraisal on the Church for this new pastor and I really liked him. My old pastor taught against me from the pulpit for about a year (I had been a very close friend prior to that). He thought I was under the influence of demons because I came to believe that tithing was not applicable to Christians (though I give generously). So I meet this guy, this new pastor for whom I had done this appraisal work and talk with him some about various Biblical doctrines. We didn't see eye to eye at the time but he is so dang likeable I said to myself 'Hey, THIS is where I want to attend'.

Now we are very close friends. I went to my former Church for about nine years. Been here at this one for about five. But my decision wasn't based on their adherence to traditional COG doctrine. I would say more but I don't want to incriminate my Pastor. I plead the fifth on his behalf.

As a further point, I don't doubt the existence of demons.

An Aside: Your post on that other message board was hilarious brother. Very, very, funny.

[MacUser]

The Jezebel spirit? Is that something like the spirit of Leviathan? That is so dadgum weird. A couple of weeks ago I got attacked by a spirit of heebie jeebie right when I walked into a Baptist Church. That sucker threw me to the ground like a red headed step child but the pastor pulled it off of me. Gotta watch them spirits.

You are absolutely blind my friend and wrap it in silly insulting humor. I have personally met some demonic spirits inside of a church facility. I was just literally walking to the bathroom and it struck me down to my knees and I won't share to much more in this public setting.

Laugh, Joke, impugn, dismiss, reject, tell yourself at night with a witty joke on your pillow that it just isn't real and we're all nuts... but it's true regardless of your opinion.

This thing is a whole lot larger than your little box. Sometimes when you can't SEE these things.. it's because it already OWNS you.

Be very careful.

[Russell Roberts]

oooohhhh - I'm scared...the scary little green demons might jump on me.

Brother, I never denied that there are demons. I acknowledged their existence in my comment above. What amuses me is that the scary ol' mean Jezebel Spirit escaped the attention of the ENTIRE world of believing Christinity (millions and millions of Christians) for TWO THOUSAND YEARS but now she seems to be everywhere.

[MacUser]

oooohhhh - I'm scared...the scary little green demons might jump on me..

haha.. Brother.. I don't think they are waiting to jump on you... but extremely comfortable with you for a loooonnnnnggg time.

I don't think you have anything to fear and that should scare you.

[Dr. Ron]

Am I being too gullible here, or am I just the only one who gets an attempt at jockularity (albeit with tasteless sarcasm)?

I didn't not get from irthnvesl's post that he was "denying the existance" of demonic forces, but rather, an attempt to say that mystifying everything is not the totality of scriptural cognition.

I know we are to try the spirits and see if they are of God. I believe in that.
But to let that be the only criteria for choosing a church is a little simplistic.
I have been in ministry a long time and I don't think I have ever entered the doors of a church ( and I have been in them all over the world) that there were not some spirits that were untoward. I can't imagine a church full of people who do not bring some bad spirits with them.

I trust Pastor Sam and his relationship with the Lord. I believe he is listening to God.....and maybe the Lord used him to decern something that he wants him to help with......happens all the time.

But, I can't imagine finding a church where there are no spiritual issues....with more than 10 people in it.

My best advice.......plant a church..... Get God's direction on a location and plant yourselves there .....if it is just a bible study twice a week.....

[Russell Roberts]

Dr. Ron,

This is what you said that I thought was the most meaningful:

.....if it is just a bible study twice a week.....

If we could just base our doctrine on what is written in scripture and avoid the fads...the Jezebel Spirit...the Prayer of Jabez...the Left Behind series...

Maybe we could just dust our Bibles off and try to understand it...

Maybe I'm possessed by the spirit of 'Bible Study'.

[Mike Vande]

I reserve commeent on the existance and/or influence of spirits, Jezebel or otherwise, on churches in the present day. I do know that a lot of folks are "sensing" demons whre none exist, perhaps out of an abundance of caution, perhaps because of an overly spicy meal, perhaps even because they are so desparate to feel something that they unintentionally manufacture it.

But if Jennifer, her husband or any member of their family is uncomfortable on some level in a group of people meeting together, they would be silly to ignore it. I'd say investigate it further, talk with the pastor and tell him what your husband believes he discerned, and see what happens. The worst that can happen is that he tells you to get lost, but maybe you can be part of that body chucking that Spirit. I don't have a word from God on this, but maybe you guys need to pray for the spirit that resided in Caleb when he said "with the Lord, we can defeat the giants in the land."

I do have to ask one thing. If your husband sensed a wrong spirit in the place, particularly one involving wrongful activities of females as the Jezebel spirit is said to be, why would you accept prophetic utterance from a woman in that place? Devils know how you feel about stuff too, you know...

[Kenya]

It was insinuated once that I had a Jezebel spirit. Hmmmm

[MrDanger]

It was insinuated once that I had a Jezebel spirit. Hmmmm

....and I have been avoiding going to church with you ever since.

[N.T. Wright Fan]

...They have an anointed, talented worship leader...the worship leader concluded praise and worship by having the men come up for prayer. My husband returned to his seat looking stiff and uncomfortable. When I asked what was wrong, he said, "There are bad spirits here." He had discerned a heavy spiritual problem with the pastor and also that many others in the church were being influenced by a Jezebel spirit. It didn't take long to note that several women in the front were behaving very conspicuously, and they weren't the only ones.

A few questions here.

1) If you and your husbands are Christians, and there was clear evidence of demonic possession at the church, why did you not confront the demons in the manner that Jesus and the Apostles did? Why didn't you take control of the situation, and cast out the demons? Or, if you rightly discerned that the worship leader was "annointed" by God, to whom demons are but a triffle, why didn't this annointed man do something?

2) Please define exactly what you mean by "a Jezebel spirit?" Is that something God revealed to you, and if so, how? Or is it just something you heard on TBN or GodTV? Either way, I'd like to know what it is.

3) What do you mean when you say some of the women "were behaving very conspicuously?" Given that the word "conspicuous" means "easily seen or noticed," I fail to see what is alarming about this. Were you concerned because these women were easy to be seen? Should they have hidden themselves from view -- or what? I'm sorry, I don't understand the problem.

[Russell Roberts]

Brother TOM!

That was very well worded. Thanks for addressing the issue in a very mature Christian manner. You are an eloquent writer and speaker and I am one of your biggest fans. Thanks for showing up to bring some sanity to this discussion. By the way, you looked very tall in an interview I saw with you on ABC. Exactly how tall are you?