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MacUser
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Postby MacUser » December 8th, 2008, 7:47 pm

Tim,
Seriously. What does all this matter for? In a few (insert unknown timeframe - but FINITE) years when mankind has destroyed the planet and is comfortably extinct along with everything living past or present... none of this past chatter will even matter. No eternal justice, No Agendas. Just the dreams of a rock.

These beacons/agendas of brief fleeting purpose you engage in will be eternally lost in oblivion.

Or has our incredible Divine Designer given you enough evidence to believe in Him yet? Is this why you care?

Are you after some fleeting vapor of justice or eternal reward?


*sorry it's late :wink:
Chris -

... Behold, the Lamb of God, that taketh away the sin of the world!
John 1:29

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Tim Elston
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Postby Tim Elston » December 8th, 2008, 8:17 pm

MacUser wrote:Seriously. What does all this matter for? In a few (insert unknown timeframe - but FINITE) years when mankind has destroyed the planet and is comfortably extinct along with everything living past or present... none of this past chatter will even matter. No eternal justice, No Agendas. Just the dreams of a rock.


That's a great question, and a fair one. It matters to me because the truth matters. When it comes to war and support for war, we are talking about life-and-death and life-and-limb affects on people's lives. It matters that Americans get war and peace right, because so many lives are affected by our decisions in that regard. If we are not discriminate in our foreign policy doctrines, and are merely nationalistic flag wavers whose knee-jerk reaction is to support whatever war into which our leaders lead us, then we reliquish our democratic responsibility to weigh decisions for war against standards of conduct that provide checks against abuse. Abosulte power corrupts absolutely.

We must weigh our leaders' decisions against more than our nationalistic pride or else we become the abusers. We become the killers. We become the murderers and maimers, all in the name of God, country, and apple pie. We must care about our pesidents' war doctrines. We must be aware of them. We must judge them against moral standards. We must be wary of the proneness of leaders to deceive and betray and abuse. We should be proud of being Americans because of the right that we do, not because we are Americans. And in order to be worthy of that pride, we need to do what is right, not simply what strokes our nationalistic pride. What we do affects people. That's why we should care, and we should care greatly.

In our foreign policy, self-examination, self-knowledge, self-criticism, and humility must be paramount. Too often self-pride and self-interest whip us up in support of unexamined action. The unexamined life is not worth living, either personally or nationally. We must give diligence to show ourselves approved. We must reach for the prize of the high calling of being Americans. I mean, these passions to do justly, to love mercy, and to walk humbly should be passions derived from our deepest moral and civic being. Being an American is a great privilege, and we must be responsible stewards of our citizenship. We must hold ourselves and our leaders to account in our use of our extreme power in the world. If we don't we will bring our own ruin on our heads. It is not the short-term gains by which we will thrive but the long term commitment and loyalty to what is right.

I mean, why should we care who we go to war against? Why should we care for whom we do good? Why should we care against whom we do evil? Because it matters for the lives our decisions and actions affect. It comes down to being that simple of an answer. It matters because our actions affect people.

Anyway, I'm still at work so just had to blurt that out from a resevoire of pathos. Not too elegantly spoken, but I hope it answers the question as strongly as I feel it.
"And just when you think you've got me figured out, remember, No man ever steps in the same river twice, for it is not the same river and he is not the same man." --Heraclitus

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MacUser
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Postby MacUser » December 9th, 2008, 5:22 am

Tim Elston wrote: Abosulte power corrupts absolutely.


Absolutely we agree.. this is one reason why this rampant killing machine of untold generations was removed.

We DO care Tim and we DO see the greater good plus the ETERNAL punishment that will follow, if not washed clean by the blood of Jesus.
Sound supernatural? Yes, our faith is supernatural.


Tim Elston wrote:In our foreign policy, self-examination, self-knowledge, self-criticism, and humility must be paramount.


Sure.. but what you bring forth isn't self-examination.. but self destruction, undermining EXISTING standards and morals to promote a twisted think propaganda and confusion laced with pink elephant overlooking agendas that are transparently all wrapped in an unattainable Godless moral care flag waving package of utopia that frankly has no merit.

You can't have morality without a basic belief in God. This is why I question why you care so much. If you don't have a basic belief in a grand designer - can't bow to that premise.. how can this be anything but an agenda AGAINST these existing core standards for a brief bubble of purpose.

I think all these deep issues overlap and intertwine if you can see the direction of my thinking. If not.. we could clearly agree to MOVE forward and deal with wrong issues... without constantly attempting to uproot the fabric of the road that got us here.

Clear as mud? Sorry if so. Thanks for your thoughts.

God Bless You!
Chris -



... Behold, the Lamb of God, that taketh away the sin of the world!

John 1:29


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