Ray Boltz new song "Don't Tell Me Who to Love"

[paul]

If we are the body that we say we are, then why do we harshly speak agianst the people that live in their sin openly than rather speak against the sin itself? No i dont agree with the fact that Ray Boltz or anyone else for that matter lives that typle of live style! But the bible says this:

Sad to say, but IMO, we are no where near the body of Christ we say we are. How sad. As a rule we are cruel, mean, vicious, self centered, self righteous, void of compassion, destitute of understanding, and I am sure that in these there are area of my life that are applicable. And generally do the exact opposite of what we say.

If it were legal I feel some would take Boltz,and others outback and stone them. And leave feeling they did God a favor.

When these things happen the thing that really comes out of the closet is our visious attitude

[Wes]

Sounds to me like you need to mature a little. I recommend that you be mentored by a strong brother in the faith.

Not really sure what you mean by this.......speak to me...what did you mean by this?

I need to apologize for that statement too. It was arrogant and disrespectful. Please forgive me. I will try to dialogue from now on without being arrogant and disrespectful. I love you brother.

[Wes]

If it were legal I feel some would take Boltz,and others outback and stone them. And leave feeling they did God a favor.

When these things happen the thing that really comes out of the closet is our vicious attitude

I don't want to stone him. I just wish that he would be silent and drop his agenda.

[Wes]

.....but my prayers for the man is that he will SOON know that Gods word is real and sure to judge and that he will RUN back to the arms of the Christ.....

That is my prayer also.

[valley]

If it were legal I feel some would take Boltz,and others outback and stone them. And leave feeling they did God a favor.

When these things happen the thing that really comes out of the closet is our vicious attitude

I don't want to stone him. I just wish that he would be silent and drop his agenda.

Now that is a dangerous road to go down.

I remember some time ago being in an exchange concerning a high school student's right to wear a religious shirt conveying a message about homosexuality. Several friends of mine were up in arms over the "hate speech" of this child. They voiced opinions that he should have been banned and what not.

I opposed the willful silencing of differing opinions simply because it does not sit well with the sensativities of a particular sub-group within the American culture. My reasoning was along the lines of if we force the silencing of this young man, then there could come a time when your voices will be silenced as well. Naturally, no one wants their opinions to be silenced, so let the young man have his say. The same should hold true to Boltz in this case.

Further, I said that I do not believe that the young man is engaging in hate speech. There was not one single bit of evidence that he had any ill will toward homosexuals. The only true conclusion that could be reached from his shirt is that he believes homosexuals can be forgiven of their sins. Rather you agree that homosexual acts are sin or not is not the point, the message of the grace of God is nothing but love. Thus, out of love he was reaching out to those whom he felt were heading in the wrong direction.

Now let's compare the cases. The young man conveyed a message that pro-gay rights supporters wanted to repress. Boltz is conveying a message that pro-gay rights supporters embrace. Because we may disagree with one or both of these individuals does not mean that they should ever be silent. No more than I should hope any of you would be silent when the opportunity arises to present your opinion.

[Wes]

If it were legal I feel some would take Boltz,and others outback and stone them. And leave feeling they did God a favor.

When these things happen the thing that really comes out of the closet is our vicious attitude

I don't want to stone him. I just wish that he would be silent and drop his agenda.

Now that is a dangerous road to go down.

I remember some time ago being in an exchange concerning a high school student's right to wear a religious shirt conveying a message about homosexuality. Several friends of mine were up in arms over the "hate speech" of this child. They voiced opinions that he should have been banned and what not.

I opposed the willful silencing of differing opinions simply because it does not sit well with the sensativities of a particular sub-group within the American culture. My reasoning was along the lines of if we force the silencing of this young man, then there could come a time when your voices will be silenced as well. Naturally, no one wants their opinions to be silenced, so let the young man have his say. The same should hold true to Boltz in this case.

Further, I said that I do not believe that the young man is engaging in hate speech. There was not one single bit of evidence that he had any ill will toward homosexuals. The only true conclusion that could be reached from his shirt is that he believes homosexuals can be forgiven of their sins. Rather you agree that homosexual acts are sin or not is not the point, the message of the grace of God is nothing but love. Thus, out of love he was reaching out to those whom he felt were heading in the wrong direction.

Now let's compare the cases. The young man conveyed a message that pro-gay rights supporters wanted to repress. Boltz is conveying a message that pro-gay rights supporters embrace. Because we may disagree with one or both of these individuals does not mean that they should ever be silent. No more than I should hope any of you would be silent when the opportunity arises to present your opinion.

Don't misunderstand what I'm saying. I don't think that he should be forced to be silent. Nor should we be forced to be silent. I just wish he would choose to be silent because what he is preaching IMO is heresy.

[scooter]

Don't misunderstand what I'm saying. I don't think that he should be forced to be silent. Nor should we be forced to be silent. I just wish he would choose to be silent because what he is preaching IMO is heresy.

Response: Inside or outside?

[dalebert]

Now let's compare the cases. The young man conveyed a message that pro-gay rights supporters wanted to repress. Boltz is conveying a message that pro-gay rights supporters embrace. Because we may disagree with one or both of these individuals does not mean that they should ever be silent. No more than I should hope any of you would be silent when the opportunity arises to present your opinion.

Again its not about Ray Boltz...its the sin that he lives in and now pushes in our face......I dont like the fact that he promotes his life style by way of words in a song that many can buy and play in their cars on their to work or play nad in the private of their homes....but Pro. 8 out in Cal. is on the news and "those people" are screaming in the faces of little old women and knocking crosses out of little old womenhands and yet..i say yey...not one in this room has yelled any words about that...but spoke against one man...who has now changed his ways about how he lives...and he is a brother that is walking outside of the word...and who is fighting for him? who?

Even in another room there was a joke about him there....a fallen brother...and maybe he was secret sin about his life style but his music still reached people that helped them....goodness i hate that sin and life style....

the question remains....are we fighting for our fallen? Are we standing in the gap fighting? Do we really mean it when we say"I'll pray for you" or do we just make jokes and be light hearted about it? Its funny that the world can make a living telling jokes about people and their lives but the church making jokes about a brother that needs our support and prayers , just doesnt make sense...?
You see this hit home because i might know more than most of you about this issue..cause thru the friend that i mentioned in another post it has made me closer to the truth about my brother that has fallen...thats all im saying....let me affirm...i hate the sin...but i love my brother that has fallen...i do pray for him and his family aften....i guess you could say...im fighting for him...God Bless

Ok....more than my .02cents.....

[Wes]

Don't misunderstand what I'm saying. I don't think that he should be forced to be silent. Nor should we be forced to be silent. I just wish he would choose to be silent because what he is preaching IMO is heresy.

Response: Inside or outside?

Inside the body of Christ he should be silent (not given a platform, endorsement, etc.)
Outside the body he has the freedom to speak whatever he wants.

[Wes]

Don't misunderstand what I'm saying. I don't think that he should be forced to be silent. Nor should we be forced to be silent. I just wish he would choose to be silent because what he is preaching IMO is heresy.

Response: Inside or outside?

Inside the body of Christ he should be silent (not given a platform, endorsement, etc.)
Outside the body he has the freedom to speak whatever he wants.

If he claims to be a Christian then he should be rebuked by those within the body. If he does not claim to be a Christian then we should let God judge him. That's the way I see it. 1 Corinthians 5.

[bibleguy]

If he claims to be a Christian then he should be rebuked by those within the body. If he does not claim to be a Christian then we should let God judge him. That's the way I see it.

Ditto.

The next welcome words out of his mouth before the children of God should be words of confession. And the next welcome production is fruits meet for repentance.

I know that God does not delight in the destruction of the wicked, but He also is willing to do what He must to prevent depravity and wickedness from spreading and defiling more of the flock.

When the Corinthian church had a sexual sin in their midst, they were proud of their ability to "forgive," and tolerate the condition. Paul rebuked them and exhorted them to cast out the wayward brother.

We don't want to be cruel, but in our attempt to be godly, we reject His word in how to deal with the backslider. We feel God's way is harsh and unfair.

But, “Shall mortal man be more just than God? shall a man be more pure than his maker?” (Job 4:17).

Yes, if you see your brother in some sin, approach him. If he will hear you and repent, you have "gained" your brother. If not, then take a couple of the brethren with you and try again. If he still refuse to listen, then take him before the congregation. If he further resist, treat him like a heathen and a publican (Matthew 18:15-17).*

That's Scripture! That's New Testament! That's Jesus' own words! It doesn't get more authoritative than that!


*(Mind you, this is when he sins against you personally, hence the initial private meeting between you both to keep the damage to a minimum. In the case of Ray Boltz, the thing is done openly, therefore has to be dealt with openly. I don't know what if any denomination he was affiliated, or what local church, but some form of shunning or disfellowshipping is without a doubt necessary when a brother has embraced a clearly sinful practice to this level. If you really want to reach Ray, and preserve the cleanliness of the Body, you have to put the filth out of the midst of the congregation. We hope and pray that remorse, guilt and conviction will set in, and he will feel the loss of fellowship as well, and will seek reconciliation with God and with the people of God.)

[Wes]

If he claims to be a Christian then he should be rebuked by those within the body. If he does not claim to be a Christian then we should let God judge him. That's the way I see it.

Ditto.

The next welcome words out of his mouth before the children of God should be words of confession. And the next welcome production is fruits meet for repentance.

I know that God does not delight in the destruction of the wicked, but He also is willing to do what He must to prevent depravity and wickedness from spreading and defiling more of the flock.

When the Corinthian church had a sexual sin in their midst, they were proud of their ability to "forgive," and tolerate the condition. Paul rebuked them and exhorted them to cast out the wayward brother.

We don't want to be cruel, but in our attempt to be godly, we reject His word in how to deal with the backslider. We feel God's way is harsh and unfair.

But, “Shall mortal man be more just than God? shall a man be more pure than his maker?” (Job 4:17).

Yes, if you see your brother in some sin, approach him. If he will hear you and repent, you have "gained" your brother. If not, then take a couple of the brethren with you and try again. If he still refuse to listen, then take him before the congregation. If he further resist, treat him like a heathen and a publican (Matthew 18:15-17).*

That's Scripture! That's New Testament! That's Jesus' own words! It doesn't get more authoritative than that!


*(Mind you, this is when he sins against you personally, hence the initial private meeting between you both to keep the damage to a minimum. In the case of Ray Boltz, the thing is done openly, therefore has to be dealt with openly. I don't know what if any denomination he was affiliated, or what local church, but some form of shunning or disfellowshipping is without a doubt necessary when a brother has embraced a clearly sinful practice to this level. If you really want to reach Ray, and preserve the cleanliness of the Body, you have to put the filth out of the midst of the congregation. We hope and pray that remorse, guilt and conviction will set in, and he will feel the loss of fellowship as well, and will seek reconciliation with God and with the people of God.)

Yeah! What you said! I agree 100%. Bibleguy, I think I love you brother.

[scooter]

If he still refuse to listen, then take him before the congregation. If he further resist, treat him like a heathen and a publican (Matthew 18:15-17).*

Response: You mean with love, hugs, and kisses??