AHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH!!

[A2JGirl]

I am still fuzzy on prayer too, Wendy. I don't understand why me praying for anybody does any good when God already knows and I have no power in myself to do anything anyway.

BUT, after reading The Shack, I understand it more than before! I don't think that I can convince God of anything. BUT I think that our prayers reinforce our relationships with each other and with God. I can't tell God anything that He doesn't already know. I can't make Him do anything that He wasn't already going to do. But He involves me in the proccess.

[EagerBeaver]

I am still fuzzy on prayer too, Wendy. I don't understand why me praying for anybody does any good when God already knows and I have no power in myself to do anything anyway.

BUT, after reading The Shack, I understand it more than before! I don't think that I can convince God of anything. BUT I think that our prayers reinforce our relationships with each other and with God. I can't tell God anything that He doesn't already know. I can't make Him do anything that He wasn't already going to do. But He involves me in the proccess.

I think...

1. More than anything prayer shows our desire to see God intervene in the lives of us and our friends. Remember there HAVE been instances in the Bible where God changed his mind because of faithful prayer (see Abraham and the cities of Sodom and Gomorrha) and other times he has stood staunch regardless of who prayed (see Jesus in the Garden).

2. The Shack sucks. Modalism at its worst and many of my peers eat the stuff up.

[A2JGirl]

1. But did God REALLY change his mind? Or was the whole thing more good for Abraham than anything? I may put something out of my child's reach, knowing that she can have it later, but making her wait teaches her patience, amongst other things.

2. Modalism? I'll have to look that up. I may not have agreed with all of the theology of The Shack, but it sure made me think of God in a way I never had before, and rethink my relationship with Him. Not to mention that it calmed my fears of my children ever being harmed.

[scooter]

I am still fuzzy on prayer too, Wendy. I don't understand why me praying for anybody does any good when God already knows and I have no power in myself to do anything anyway.

BUT, after reading The Shack, I understand it more than before! I don't think that I can convince God of anything. BUT I think that our prayers reinforce our relationships with each other and with God. I can't tell God anything that He doesn't already know. I can't make Him do anything that He wasn't already going to do. But He involves me in the proccess.

Response: This is really sad.

[A2JGirl]

How so? I generally am not out in left field. Everyone has their areas they don't understand or could stand to learn more about. Help me learn if you have more understanding than me, lest I go back into my shell and never dare speak of things I don't understand again.

[Pastor Bill]

My wife knows I love her, so I shouldn't tell her again right?

Prayer is our conversation with God, and frankly I have went through times where I felt much like you are describing, but it's amazing when God draws me back to my knees.

Sunday evening during worship God started speaking to me about just that, I actually changed the direction of the message. Then at the end of the service I opened the altar for prayer, letting everyone know that the remainder of the service would be a time of prayer, and when they were done praying they were dismissed to leave, they didn't have to wait on a formal closing, but just take all the time they needed for prayer.

Well I prayed for probably about an hour, and God really opened things up to me, after Praying for awhile myself, I pulled my wife close and asked her if we could pray for her (she's been having alot of problems with her knees and back and has been in physical therapy for weeks. She received a partial healing, drastic difference, although not completely pain free. Then I prayed by myself for a long time.

I think sometimes we don't give prayer the focus it needs, we often get too busy, or don't see the importance, but the question that kept coming to me that night as that little voice would say "OK you've prayed long enough, just stop now" was Christ asking the disciples "Can you not sit with me even one hour?" One hour of prayer didn't seem like much to him, but we think 5 minutes is going too long?

[one love]

Cat, I understand trust me.

BUT I am reminded of my late Grandmother. I am reminded of when I stumbled up upon something very special one day.

I arrived at my Grandmothers and failed to get her to the door. I walked around the house concerned that I would find her hurt or harmed.

To my surprise as I walked up to her window.. it was slightly open. Suddenly I heard a powerful prayer spring forth for her family and offered up to God in a beautiful fashion followed by a pause, then she would resume powerfully praying for her family and church.

At first, I was stunned as I was in a place that I knew I should not have been. She was unaware I was outside her window. I intruded into a intercessory prayer moment and I felt it down to my core. I could sense the connection between Her and Her God. They were communicating in a very special manner and I was the outside party.

Without making a noise, I retreated. She was locked in her bedroom.. on here hands and knees praying for all US, including me. It's very humbling. I apologized to God for the intrusion and also thanked Him for allowing me to witness it. That I could see.

Now that She is gone. Who will be interceding for us now? Who will be the vigilant prayer warrior whom assumes these mantles?

God Bless You.

MACUSER I cant express how much this blessed me, i needed to hear that today, it just touched me deeply and awakens us how important it is...awesome

[one love]

Of course he knows our needs but he did let us know "I would that ye ask" To assume he knows what we need then why pray takes away the general purpose of our relationship with him.

[n2jesus]

The Bible says to pray without ceasing...that is enough for me...When Peter was told by Jesus that satan has desired to sift you like wheat, BUT I have prayed for thee...What an example for us, are we not followers of Jesus? The bible also says we don't know how to pray as we ought, but the spirit prays, with groanings that cannot be uttered...Sounds like intercessory prayer to me...I would be totally lost if it weren't for prayer, prayers from my family, prayers from my church family, prayers from friends...I can still remember driving down Foster Avenue at 1/2 am in the morning and seeing my uncle walking out the front door of the church, knowing my name was on a 24 hour prayer list...It brought instant Holy Ghost conviction...And I thank God to this day for the prayers that have been prayed all these years for me and my family...There is also an incident in the Bible where a crippled man was put down through the roof to have Jesus pray over him and Jesus said because of your faith (his friends) he was healed...Try praying more, praying sincerely from a pure heart and watch God move...Praying for me is like breathing....

[A2JGirl]

Just so everyone knows... doing and understanding are two different things. I do pray and believe in prayer... I just don't understand everything about it. I am a Christian too and don't understand everything about Christ, yet I follow Him.

[scooter]

How so? I generally am not out in left field. Everyone has their areas they don't understand or could stand to learn more about. Help me learn if you have more understanding than me, lest I go back into my shell and never dare speak of things I don't understand again.

Response: I don't want to pick you apart or cause you to go back into hiding.

It just struck me as sad.

You were just the tipping point.

I guess the thread about not sleeping changed to being about prayer. I don't want to hijack it much further.

Rather than a work of fiction, I wish that what the Bible said about God and prayer was enough for one to gain such understanding.

Sorry.

I think I'm just fed up with the God's going to do what God's going to do garbage.

Removing the aspects of human choice from God's design is simply perversion.

Take for example:

2Ch 7:14 If my people, which are called by my name, shall humble themselves, and pray, and seek my face, and turn from their wicked ways; then will I hear from heaven, and will forgive their sin, and will heal their land.

But you have no power?

When one's imagination of God supercedes Biblical text it's troubling to me.

That's all. I'm just put out with an overriding modern God's going to do what God's going to do/ we can't make a difference mindset.

No personal issue. Post away.

PS: Wendy, just go to sleep would you?

[soulsearcher]

The Shack stinks.

I respect your opinion. Hope you do the same for mine. I loved it.

[A2JGirl]

Thank you SO MUCH for responding Scooter! And so kindly too.

I see that I really misrepresented my thoughts.

I do need to study more about what the Bible has to say about prayer. I have studies already, but what do you do when you don't understand the lecture? Study the material again!

What I read in The Shack made me take another look at what I already know in the Bible, and see it in a different light. In NO WAY does a fictional book supercede the Bible, or even add to it. But if the Bible is always enough for us, then why do we have preachers at all? Why do we have sermons and sermon illustrations? Why are we even here on this message board at all discussing anything? Why are we not just all reading our KJV's and leaving it at that?

I know that I have heard some folks say things in sermons and such that I in no way agreed with at all. BUT what they said made me take a look at my beliefs again and understand some things better. I said that I didn't agree with all of the theology in The Shack, and there were things that made me shake my head and say, "whatever", but made me want to find proof in the Bible for WHY I felt that way, but there were a lot of things that made me go , Yeah, I like that. That makes me think of this, which makes me think of this, and now that makes sense.


And I TOTALLY believe in the If=then promises of God! The DOING I understand. Just like a father, clean your room, THEN you can go to the mall. The DOING I understand. It's the SAYING that I don't. My words have no power. I talked to a lady recently who was into Kenneth Hagin. She was talking about how Jesus spoke to the tree and it died, so we are supposed to be like Jesus, so don't speak negative things (or acknowledge negative things like your feet aching) or it will come to pass because there is power in our words. Bologna! I have no power of myself. If there is any power in me it comes from Jesus.

I agree with you that we don't need to just lay back and let God run the show. I don't agree with "God's gonna do what God's gonna do so why bother." That is NOT what I mean. But when I pray for God to supernaturally intervene, why would He choose to do it if He wasn't going to already? If God can be swayed by my will, then what kind of God is that? THAT'S the kind of thing I haven't understood.

I do think now that it is less about my understanding and more about my obedience and developing that relationship with Jesus than anything. He does what He does to further that relationship with us, as our Father.

Thanks again for responding and giving me a chance to clarify.

[Ilovebigcats]

I didn't read all the posts... I kinda blurred through them.. but I want to say and make clear...

I PRAY! But I don't whine and scream and wale about...
I don't find it necessary. Danny tells me he loves me and doesn't have to be on his knees screaming and crying for me to hear him and understand that.

I can pray without ceasing easily. The things of God are almost always on my mind. I have a close relationship with God. He knows how I am and how I react to things. I let him know just like I would my really close friends. I can send A2J girl a text that is really short and she fully understands that. She doesn't need a really long sobbing letter from me to know she is my closest friend and I can tell her anything and she knows all of what is going on. If I talked to her like some people do to God she would think I needed to be committed.

When I was growing up, my Great Uncle JC helped me know what prayer was really about. He rarely even closed his eyes. He spoke to God like he was standing right in front of him. It seems to me that we equate prayer warriors with the ones that cry and yell the longest with the greatest amount of time.

I also know people that cry and scream and go on and on about things to God and nothing has happened. I also know a man that God told him enough, I told you the answer is coming. Believe it or not... Jesus is our brother.. we can talk to him like we would our brother. Seriously.. I don't get why everything has to be more difficult than it is....

LIKE MY SLEEP! Buncha hijackers.

[n2jesus]

Even though you don't outwardly express prayer like some others doesn't mean it's right or wrong...I am different from you as each one of us are different from one another...I am hindered if I can't pray aloud...I pray silently daily, but when I feel the urgency in my spirit to pray, I like to pray alone and aloud...Is God deaf, no, does he have a hearing problem, no, but I have the need to express in this manner...It's as personal as a fingerprint...You receive not, because you ask not...I pray as if I believe with all my heart God is listening and working it all out for my good...Sometimes I want to say, just ignore everything I am saying and asking for what I truly want is your perfect will and truly I do...Many answered prayers have taught me hard lessons and I know God was doing what was best for me all the time....As I get older I try to pray smarter and just say I have no idea what is best, just have your way Lord!!! And when I lean to my own understanding in any biblical principals I don't fully get, I just get myself in a mess....So my prayer is for God to reveal only what is best for me to know...He knows the way from earth to heaven and I trust him with my entire life....

Wendy take valerian root time released and melantonin from Nature's Sunshine and you will at least get 4 hours of solid sleep...Sleep deprivation will kill you!!!!!!!!

Sorry you come from a long list of insomniacs!!!!!!!!