Generators

[JohnDB]

Man oh man these things are expensive.

I was looking to buy one...but I have since seen the error of my ways.

I did some research first...
since I have had a little personal experience with the things and decided that a gasoline generator is the worst thing to buy. Propane or deisel is a much better choice than any other generator out on the market. (that includes just about everyone...but most commonly sold ones are gasoline)

Even used the things are way too much to spend for what I need. (a couple of extention cords from a neighbor should suffice what I need)

How come the thingies cost so stinking much?
There ain't much to them...an alternator and a motor. The rest is not worth ten bucks. But people charge huge prices for them.

Copper is cheap..so are engines. So the electric part shouldn't be that much these days.

A 6000 watt generator will run somewhere around $2,000.
(one that makes rather clean electricity...dirty electricity can ruin appliances)
Some are a little more (up to $3000) and some a little less (to $1400)

Dirty electricity is electricity that is generated but isn't at 60 hz which is what your stuff here in America runs off of. Europe runs off of 50hz mostly if they use AC.

All I know is that these things are exhorbitantly expensive for what they do...

[MacUser]

Build yourself one then. I would enjoy the build.

I currently have a 5000 Gasoline and during Katrina and other sever storms.. it proved extremely useful.

Things to consider.. that you need to have your house wired for this setup if you plan on feeding it thru your house.. or you can KILL a lineman attempting to repair it.

I installed an access port onto my house so that I can send the power directly into the essential areas. Then you have to CUT / OFF the main supply so it doesn't feed back up the line and again, kill someone

Then I went in a marked my electrical box as to the key critical elements that need to be running, fridge, hvac, few lights etc. that would be super easy for the generator to push.

I have propane in the rest of my home.. so the stove, backup wall heat and water heating is working regardless.

In a time of crisis. GASOLINE is going to be the most easy fuel source to replenish.

[TW]

The cost is relative to the need. If you really need a 6000 watt generator then $2000 is not excessive. If you don't really need a 6000 watt generator then yes is cost is prohibitive. If you have a real need then they are invaluable, if you don't then they are a waste of money. The manufacturers will charge what ever the market will bear. FYI cooper is not cheap, i.e. the penny. The penny is currently the only denomination of legal tender in the U.S. that cost more to produce than it's face value. It cost $1.04 to produce 100 pennies, the biggest factor in the cost is the cooper.


TW

[beckrl]

All I know is that these things are exhorbitantly expensive for what they do...

Unless you are out of power for weeks
I do like the Guardian standby Generators
http://www.homebackupsystem.com/

[Mister Ed]

They actually do more than sit there and make electricity. They bring a little peace of mind just sitting quitely in a storage shed.

They bring a feeling of satisfaction just sitting there when the electric lines are up and the lights are on knowing that if, and when, the pumped in power goes off and the lights go out, the refrigerator and the freezer goes off; all you have to do is go out and fire up the old generator and everyting comes back on.

I was in the midst of the big ice storm here in Elizabethtown when, according to this morning's paper, 28,000 out of 33,000 customers of Nolin RECC where without power, some for 18 days. Mine was off for 2 weeks but I have 2 generators, a 5500 watt and a 7500 watt. I loaned one to my brother next door and he was able to run a propane furnace and I have a wood stove that I heated with so we faired pretty well. I ran it enough through the day to keep the freezer and refregerator on as needed and at night just before dark I started it and let it run until bedtime. Had lights, TV, and whatever along with the appliances. The smaller one burns about 1/2 gallon of gasoline per hour.

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[JohnDB]

I was looking on Youtube to see if anyone had a "do it yourself" type thing going on there...

I ran into this concept of "Zero Point Energy" which involves very little energy going into a device and a lot of energy coming out of a device. Usually magnets are the driving force in these things.

Magnets do wear out over time. But if it would work for ten years...it would be worth a chunk of change.

OK...so with the millions of dollars spent on these things...why doesn't anyone start out rather small and just sell a little 6000 watt generator?

Maybe even a 10,000 watt or 200amp/hour generator?

That is usually more than enough to power a house. No electrical bills ever again.

I seen a bunch of goofy toys that resembled funky spinning tops...but that is all.

I simply don't understand as to why none of these guys can hook one of these perpetual motion devices up to a real generator and make 120/240 volts?

[TW]

JohnDB,
"Zero Point Energy" is a pipe dream, a sham, a bogus concept, a scam. It is impossible to built a machine that produces more energy than it takes to power it. Simple "Laws of Physics." You will always have some degree of "mechanical loss" of energy through friction, etc.. This is why perpetual motions machines are impossible to build. The best that can be done is to reduce the mechanical loss to a minimum. All of our energy comes either directly or indirectly from the sun. Solar panels are a way of collecting that energy directly. They are still not very efficient, they are better now than they were in the past, but they still only collect a small percentage of the energy that strikes them. A Solar Furnace is another indirect method of collecting that energy. Fossil fuels (coal, oil, and natural gas) are more indirect methods of obtaining that energy. They are deposit of organic material that over time has broken down into a form the can be used to extract the stored energy they contain. Even wind power is dependent upon solar activity. Nuclear energy, while not dependent upon the "sun" use the same engine that the sun does to produce energy, therefore it could be classed as being "solar." The best that you can do is to find a way to produce the electrical power that you need in an efficient manor. There will always be a cost, both in the mechanical loss and in maintenance.


TW

[Full Quiver]

It is impossible to built a machine that produces more energy than it takes to power it.

really?

[TW]

It is impossible to built a machine that produces more energy than it takes to power it.

really?

Really!

[Tim Elston]

Build yourself one then. I would enjoy the build.

Building your own generator

Now the questions are, Do you have the tools to build it, and, if not, How much do the tools cost? Or, better yet, Can I mass produce a good generator that will cost less than $2000 and become wealthy?

[JohnDB]

The type of generator that these guys made is fine for car batteries or marine batteries (12 volt/DC) and then a power inverter (transformer) is used to turn the electricity into 120 volt AC power. (rather short lived at that)

What I have found is that the alternators designed to generate 60 hz/120 volt electricity are exhorbitantly more expensive.(on a retail basis) They really aren't much larger or more complicated than their automotive cousins. This may be due to pricing/profit strategies. But the market for these gasoline generators that would cost consumers somewhere around $300 would be phenominal. You would clean house!


Gasoline used to generate electricity is very expensive versus even what TVA fed electric companies charge. $.09 per KW (TVA) vs $.04 per Kw (non-TVA). Gasoline @ $2.80 a gallon is going to cost somewhere around $.56 per KW. Deisel usually costs a little less due to the low speed the engines turn and less fuel requirements of the motors. (Propane was only marginally higher than gasoline)


I have no plans for coming off of the electric grid. But a windmill does have it's tax incentives...even if the generated electricity is only used to warm the pipes in the house to keep them from freezing. (a low power usage situation) While we are off travelling the countryside and there is no heat or water in the house.

Mr. Ed,
How did you fare in the latest Ice Storm to hit KY? Bardstown was hit pretty hard.

[Full Quiver]

Maybe I am naive but I assumed that when you put fuel (power) into an internal combustion engine that the mechanical power produced was far greater than that which was spent.

[TW]

FQ,
I will try to explain this so that you can understand it. In Physics there is a law called the Law of Conservation. Simply stated it says, in any isolated system the total amount of energy remains constant. In an internal combustion engine the fuel has potential energy, the engine has none. As the fuel is introduced into the engine with the addition of air (oxygen) the fuel/air mix is burned producing force (work). This force is often referred to as horsepower. If you were to measure the total energy, the potential energy in the fuel/air mix would be equal to the work (minus mechanical loss) done by the engine. It is possible to make the engine more powerful, but the cost is an increase in the fuel/air mixture required. As an example, let's say that you had a 400 h.p. engine that got 15 mpg on the street. You decide that you want to race your car at the local drag strip, so you beef up the engine with a blower and all the other goodies. It now produces 1500 h.p., but that gallon of gas will only get you about a quarter of a mile. The potential energy remains the same, and is still equal to the work done by the engine. The only things that have changed is the time span over which the work was done, the speed at which the work was done and the distance that the given amount of fuel would yield.


TW

[JohnDB]

Ummmm

TW,
I think that Full Quiver is pulling your leg here. I do believe that he does know this stuff only too well.

But I did some research on the magnetic motors...the magnets in them do lose their power rather quickly when placed under a load. Even the rare earth magnets. They also require about 25 times the energy that they give off to manufacture them. So...free energy seems to still be a thing that is all about separating those desperate to make money from what money they do have.

[Full Quiver]

John, either check a pawn shop or just steal one.