Should I have kept my mouth shut?

Postby **Pastor Gary** » April 13th, 2009, 10:47 pm

I posted a few things I have learned/am learning about being a pastor.

JohnDB · Postby **JohnDB** » April 13th, 2009, 11:31 pm

Sounds like you had a rough week.

Other than a little negative at times...yeah I have seen it happen before.

People are funny strange.
Jesus said that no prophet is accepted in his own hometown...meaning that familiarity breeds contempt.

Some people expect preachers to be majic...and when you are just an ordinary man they get their feelings hurt...and it is all your fault always.

During the early years of the Church, Peter may have been the Apostolic leader but James (Jesus' half brother) was the organizational leader of the Church.

But in the meantime...

You have a wonderful job. There are many who would love to be involved in full time ministry/missions. But they got to eat too and they would starve to death if they had to preach for a living. (Elijah's birds got cooked and eaten long ago) You get to pastor a church in Hawii...a resort island...sounds a little like heaven to me.

Postby **Pastor Gary** » April 13th, 2009, 11:56 pm

JohnDB wrote:Sounds like you had a rough week.

Actually, last week was pretty wonderful, and this week ain't bad so far. What I wrote was a collection of ponderings, not a reaction to recent events.

• I HAVE had some really, really good friends leave my church over the years, some for good reasons, and most for the stupidest excuses imaginable. It bothers me, as it bothers any pastor who loves and cares, but after the second (third?) time it happened, I learned to let go and say goodbye with more grace. (ALOHA means goodbye, too.)

• The "not getting fed" thoughts came from a recent discussion here.

• The flattery section: Yep -- current. I committed a serious breach of my own protocols, took someone at face value (because they were a huge flatterer) and I neglected to do due diligence. I failed to check the accuracy and completeness of a resumé, and it cost me/us more money than I care to admit + 115 days of lost momentum.

• The part about leadership vs management came out of a seminary assignment from last week, a report on Kouzes & Posner's The Leadership Challenge.

JohnDB wrote:But in the meantime...

You have a wonderful job. There are many who would love to be involved in full time ministry/missions. But they got to eat too and they would starve to death if they had to preach for a living. (Elijah's birds got cooked and eaten long ago) You get to pastor a church in Hawii...a resort island...sounds a little like heaven to me.

I recognize that I am blessed to be able to do what I do, where I do it. As for the resort island part... when you get stuck in a 12' x 12' office way too many hours and way too many days, it's easy to lose track of the fact that there's a beautiful beach 10 minutes from here. That office might as well be in Buffalo or Birmingham or Bangkok for all the enjoyment of the place being missed.

Postby **Shellie** » April 14th, 2009, 12:35 am

As a pastor's wife who just shared in somewhat of the same conversation with her husband just yesterday........

No, you should NOT have kept your mouth shut and....
It's a shame that you were right on target.

Pastors have a better understanding of the "wounded in the house of my friends" wording...............

RamboPreacher · Postby **RamboPreacher** » April 14th, 2009, 1:15 am

great comments PG. I especially like: Pastors are spiritual leaders, not managers. Or at least they should be.
I couldn't agree more. the "under-shepherds" role may include management, but the person filling that role may not have any/much management skill. (not saying that you don't

).

I say it that way, because I have found that many people in the COGOP paradigm believe that for some reason, the "pastor", should not only be the spiritual leader (expressed as one that should be a good "preacher", though usually not equated as a teacher) - but should be the manager, janitor, administrator, bus driver, etc...

a very wide paintbrush stroke, but the gist is there. I have heard at least TWO different pastors tell me stories about light bulbs, as example. light bulbs? yes, one pastor went through finance and business meetings that his salary was cut because he didn't take care of the building (example was his not changing a burnt out light bulb). There were probably other issues, but this was what was brought up.

Don't get me wrong, in some small-church-situations, I agree that the pastor may need to be the "chief cook and bottle washer" too, but I do not believe that it should be required if there are other capable people that can and should be doing that kind of administrative duties in the church building (and other local variables).

free · Postby **free** » April 14th, 2009, 1:58 am

Words of wisdom...As a fellow pastor I have experienced each of those feelings!

Dr. Ron · Postby **Dr. Ron** » April 14th, 2009, 4:56 am

Welcome to the wonderful world of "ministry"..( spoken in the purest form of seminary trained baptist vernacular and emphasis) "min-is-tra"...

I tell my congregation all the time. It is not if I will disappoint you, but rather how and when I will disappoint you.

I know about the friends walking away.....a whole denomintion of them....

I know about being flattered and then knifed.

I know about depending on people....however,
On this one, I get it right more than not. I have set up and tore down more gear than one can imagine in my 50+ years of minitry. I have hauled it, unloaded it, set it up, took it down. packed it up....you get the picture.
In my church, I refuse to turn the sound on, turn on the media computer, anything....I just tell them I don't know their proceedures. Could I do it? Yes...I could walk right through it....but I refuse to do it so they do not become dependent on me. It's their ministry.......not mine....

Hang in there Gary.....those people come and go. And I could have added a lot more to your list....like

The way they come to you is the way they will leave you. I cringe everytime someone says, "This is where the Lord led us.."...The Lord is very ficle and generally "leads" them somewhere else.....

I am praying for you.....it is lonely at the top.

DaJudge · Postby **DaJudge** » April 14th, 2009, 5:03 am

Dr. Ron wrote:I know about the friends walking away.....a whole denomintion of them....

With all respect, Dr. Ron, I suspect that some of them might say that it was you who walked away from them.

Dr. Ron · Postby **Dr. Ron** » April 14th, 2009, 5:33 am

My point exactly....

I walked away from a denomination....not my friends....see what I mean?

If friendship was predicated on my continuing with the denomination, then was it friendship?

dolfan · Postby **dolfan** » April 14th, 2009, 7:23 am

No, you shouldn't have kept quiet.

In fact, I wish you'd complain about one more problem in the church that I know affects you as deeply but you didn't mention.

People like me.

People who believe, love fellowship, want to be a help, but don't bother showing up at all. Maybe wounded once, maybe severely or not, but who have just checked out on the one thing that God says actually works in this world -- the church. (Nevermind present realities, The Plan and the potential are true anyway.) People who don't even nurse their wounds, but they are devoted to retreat for the sake of retreat. People, like me, who don't make sense but who do it anyway.

MacUser · Postby **MacUser** » April 14th, 2009, 9:00 am

Dr. Ron wrote:If friendship was predicated on my continuing with the denomination, then was it friendship?

Wow.. again.. a brilliant mind that slices to the core. I too desire the real stuff.

DeWayneTN · Postby **DeWayneTN** » April 14th, 2009, 10:01 am

If someone is leaving your church, what could they say that's honest but won't be offensive?

Dr. Ron · Postby **Dr. Ron** » April 14th, 2009, 10:38 am

Dewayne,

The truth....that's all I have ever asked anyone.

Don't blame it on the Lord, not getting fed, ....basically none of the religious stuff. Just say...."you know, this is not for us. We have decided that we can't continue to support your vision."

I have had one person say that I a was so relieved that I shouted.

I have had one who stood before his team and said,."I love you all, but since I got married, my wife has not really been able to accept this as home. So we have decided to choose another church home that will suit us both as a family decision. " He was given a hearty applause.

Just being honest. I had two families in one day....one said" we feel that you are too pentecostal"...the other family said " you are not pentecostal enough for us". It was none of that religious talk. It was fine and we are still friends. They fullfilled their obligations both financially and relationally and left. They are doing well in their new home church. Their pastor is a friend....in fact I recommended that church to them.

Dr. Ron · Postby **Dr. Ron** » April 14th, 2009, 10:38 am

Thanks Mac.......I think you over rate my intelligence....but keep it up ...I like it.... :lol:

Pastor Bill · Postby **Pastor Bill** » April 14th, 2009, 10:43 am

Dr. Ron wrote:one said" we feel that you are too pentecostal"...the other family said " you are not pentecostal enough for us"

All in the same day...sounds like you've found a good balance there!

You can't please everyone, and you really shouldn't try, people need to find a church that fits them and they can grow, if that's not my church, fine, just go somewhere and seek God. This isn't a competition, and there are many out there that you can reach with much less effort than trying to fight to keep someone who is ready to go. Bless them on their way out, and encourage them to keep going for God.

Jude 2