Why does the COGOP exist?

[Pastorbps]

Why does the COGOP exist as a separate entity?
For many years the COGOP existed because it believed and taught they were on an exclusive mission from God to re-establish the one government & doctrine of the NT church. This vision instilled a strong sense of loyalty to the organization. People passed by much larger and better equipped churches to attend a COGOP with 10 people because they believed they were a part of something special. States financed new missions in towns where there were no COGOPs and the U.S. had a passion to establish churches around the world even though other churches already existed in those countries. We have since abandoned the "Exclusive Body Vision" so why do we exist now? State Overseers push for COGOP missions in cities where we don't exist. Why? I mean there is already a COG there or a good independent church. So why do we need to start one? Why should people continue to struggle away at the 20 member COGOP in their town when there are numerous healthy churches all over their city? Why should someone pass the mega-church to attend a COGOP? Do we have an exclusive purpose or a denominational distinctive? If we don't, then why do we exist?
I believe it is imperative that this question be answered by our organization and not only by each local church or local churches and the organization cannot survive.

[EagerBeaver]

Pastorbps I've been asking those same questions for awhile now. You would think that COGOP as an organization would need to merge with someone to stay relevant in a world where many other Pentecostal organizations dwarf it.

I mean, look at my old state, Washington, for example. COGOP has 18 churches and two missions, the biggest church of which is New Horizons in Washougal pushing attendances of 100. I'm not sure how many "paper churches" they have but over my vacation there I talked with some friends who told me the attendance of a few churches had dipped below twenty.

Nobody was ever able to answer my question when in my teenage years I asked why my local COGOP could barely draw 20 on Sundays, yet the AG church a mile away held two Sunday services to fit everyone in. In fact that question remains unanswered...

For all intents and purposes the original mission of the COGOP is shot, and the business model is broken at best. Haphazard church planting and shoddy building have caused many COGOPs I know of to be financially unstable, and it's solely because of the goodness of their members' hearts, and their willingness to give, that the churches even exist anymore.

I believe that if the COGOP doesn't answer your question Pastor BPS the organization will lose even more than it has lost now. Not talking about people being thrown out because of their beliefs, but the church collectively has been plagued by a lack of vision and foresight for years. The whole concept of the "Church of God of Prophecy" is simply irrelevant to a younger generation who has been taught loyalty to God rather than an organization and its view of Him.

I admire the current administration's efforts to reach out and try new things, but for many of us it is too little too late. Those of us that networked outside the COGOP and realized that opportunities to spiritually flourish existed elsewhere have since taken the talents God has given us, and cultivated them in environments where we are not trying to throw our spiritual resources into fruitlessly attempting to grow a small church...instead we can focus on growth first.

I honestly believe the COGOP can reach sustainability on its own and begin to become relevant again if it would de-centralize to the point where all churches become independent but loosely affiliated with the COGOP label, similar to Ministers Fellowship International.

The biggest thing for me is that Cleveland stop feeding us all the "Vision" rhetoric they have had. Until they get a clear focus of what the heck the COGOP exists for and how it hopes to achieve that focus, it'll continue to languish and people will continue to exit to places that they can be used to achieve their focus.

[beckrl]

Over the years the COGOP has moved continually away from the vision.
To the point were no one know's what direction the church is headed or the vision of the church.

Even here on J2 we talk about: "Who We Are" "What We Teach" "What Do We Believe"

From the beginning it seemed we knew, but after changes have taken place we find that we have losted our identity.

What we believe is just as every other church. That is were we have lost our identity. Why would anyone go to a small COGOP when they can go to a number of larger churches that teach the same and don't fight to keep the doors open.

In short we as a church has lost our vision an our identity.

As a small church a vision on a local level is more that one person's vision. It all that are in one agreement.
It's that same agreement works for the total vision of the Church. In which I think we missed out on that agreement in the direction in which to go.

[dawgs10]

central community church which is cogop is well equipped and ministring to chatsworth ga in a very significant way. there is place in the kingdom for cogop and is growing very fast compared to a lot of denoms. in the world today. the perception is because of ones local church normaly. if the local church is not growing cogops not growing but this is not the case. its not IOs job to grow our local churchs. it ours. and its our responsiblilty when they dont grow. its the lack of vision at the local level not at IO.

[Brian]

What we believe is just as every other church.

EUREKA!! That, for the most part is what many in the church have fought for!! Because guess what? There IS only ONE church, the body of Christ, made up of all saved individuals that are in Christ Jesus. I say it's about time!

[EagerBeaver]

its the lack of vision at the local level not at IO.

I would have to disagree with that statement. Sometimes you get IO and state overseers that make boneheaded moves, planting churches that are bound to fail because of location, finances, etc. and it's not for lack of vision locally.

[Pastor Gary]

What you have asked is a valid question, but it is, IMHO, far too narrow.

You asked "Why does the COGOP exist as a separate entity?" Ask yourself, instead, "Why does any denomination exist as a separate entity?" Since the doctrinal distinctives that divide believers into narrow groups have blurred and largely disappeared over the past few decades, and since the songs we sing and ways we worship have become more alike than different, and since we have begun to embrace those outside our small circles as brothers/sisters in Christ and colaborers... why divide?

Have we not (COGOP, et al) preached for a century a "one fold" message? Have we not said that God's desire was for unity among his people? Is it possible -- just maybe -- that God is doing what we said he would do all along, and is just not doing it the way we expected/predicted?

So, "Why does the Nazarene Church exist as a separate entity?"

"Why does the Assembly of God exist as a separate entity?"

"Why does the International Church of the Foursquare Gospel exist as a separate entity?"

"Why does the International Pentecostal Church exist as a separate entity?"

"Why does any group exist as a separate entity?"

Most denominations have existed for decades/centuries without an exclusivist ecclesiology; we didn't, and that's the issue at hand. It is not so much a LACK of identity, as the LOSS of a previously cherished identity that troubles so many. Those of us who held our identity in Christ, and found COGOP a warm, familial expression of his body in which to operate still find it that, and have lost no sleep lamenting the loss of a false identity.

As for the tiny, struggling churches: they are the fruit of a flawed ecclesiology. Church planting was done (for the most part) the wrong way. If one believed that COGOP was THE exclusive Body of Christ, then it was not enough that there was a terrific Assembly of God serving a community... it was "necessary" to make sure the people of that area had a congregation of the TRUE church nearby. With that thought pattern dead, we have returned to square one, back to basics, and are relearning the "how's" and "why's" of church planting 101.

[RamboPreacher]

...Most denominations have existed for decades/centuries without an exclusivist ecclesiology; we didn't, and that's the issue at hand. It is not so much a LACK of identity, as the LOSS of a previously cherished identity that troubles so many. Those of us who held our identity in Christ, and found COGOP a warm, familial expression of his body in which to operate still find it that, and have lost no sleep lamenting the loss of a false identity...

excellent post PG.

When dealing with the CPPA, I often have run across the issue of "why denominations"; especially since we have thousands of members from across many denominations and countries; but we get along so well.

The best explanation is an extension of PG's answer. it has to do with the familial or comfort aspect and within the "minor" discussions, therein. Attending a church - whether a home-meeting, a family/"small" church, a larger, community church, or a mega-corporate church; has to do with many factors including what the congregants are desiring.

I could no more attend a mega (2000+) church, unless there were small-groups available to engage me at a more "familial" level. In fact, IF i were a pastor, and that was the direction and vision God had for me, I would ensure that the eldership, associate pastors, etc were all on board with being familial-close with the congregants in small-groups for engagement and teaching.

I look at Christianity that way as well. I have mentioned this before and though many disagree in my ecclesiology; the Christian is the same as the elect, and is the same as the body of Christ, and is the same as the bride of Christ, etc... Looking at my small-group model for the "megachurch", that is extended to the entire Body of Christ. we are all one church, and we have many small-groups, within small-groups, down to a local and familial level.

I love my local COGOP church body and though my wife is the only "family", the entire congregation is my family. Last week, she (my wife) attended the LDI with me. This is the first International COGOP event that she has been able to attend, since she works at a university and nearly always there is a work conflict. (remember that after prayer and research, study and discussion, we CHOSE to be members of the COGOP, we were not born and raised in it)

In any case, she was overwhelmed by the way that folks made her feel at home. she was greeted, people would engage her in discussion before and after classes, there was a sense of family, even though they had never met her before. it was amazing. she had come from a mega-church-type back ground and had never experienced this before.

The COGOP is "home" and "family" for us. we are late comers, but we know the history and past of the movement/organization/denomination; and not just the "winner-painted" version.

Can that be found elsewhere? probably. but we found it here, and there are many others that can and have found it "here" (in the COGOP) as well.

[scooter]

To see souls saved.

To see lives changed, people delivered, set free, ministered to, etc.

Why does any independent church exist?

Recent study has leaned toward an understanding that bigger is not always better when it comes to church work, though we do strive to grow.

Larger churches are found many times to be lacking in the areas of personal relationship. These relationships are what makes a successful ministry of any size.

There is validity to the vision of grow and plant, grow and plant, which the CoGop embraced. It is evidenced in the prevalent cell group method which is now "cool". Can you say bands? We had the vision of small groups long before it became popular.

There are aspects of this post which have merit.

Many of our churches do simply exist with no reason, however, that is not reflective of my experience.

I once had the same fatalistic view, even here locally.

Thank God I didn't give up and give in to the thought, "Why does the CoGop exist" or "Should there even be a CoGop here" which was my exact question.

Our leadership has shared a vision of engaging the harvest and vibrant local churches and has promoted local autonomy for years now.

I do understand that perception is jaded by experience.

If I moved to Holeinthewall and the local CoGop was functioning as if it were 1958 I'd have the same perspective.

Know this though I would trade nothing for my experience with the Church. It exists for me.

[dawgs10]

its the lack of vision at the local level not at IO.

I would have to disagree with that statement. Sometimes you get IO and state overseers that make boneheaded moves, planting churches that are bound to fail because of location, finances, etc. and it's not for lack of vision locally.

most all cogops started small in not so great locations and had a lack of finances. so explain those that grow and those that dont. the ones that grew did not because IO made it happen. church growth takes place when people are praying first. reg. prayer meetings. church growth occurs when people are willing to take the vision God gives them for their area of work. church growth takes place when people make sacrafices in there lives. i do believe that many churchs lack vision. they may have a dream of what they would like to have as a church but when it becomes vision their surroundings dont dictate church growth or the lack of. people many times want to point to goverment for lack of church growth. it truly is a sprit thing. prayer is the first and most important step.

[kurt73]

I name over the door means very little. If the curch is not following the great commission then it will not grow. The church needs to be a revolving door not a holding cell. The vision should start in the pastor and the pastors passes it on to the congregation regradless what HQ is doing.

What I see that is wrong with COGOP, is there no outreach for USA people. It is great that we reach out to other countries but we fail to reach out to our own people. Why you may ask, because the American people is flooded with religion, good or bad. They are hard to witness to and are difficult to reach.

So start reaching out and impacting the community that your church is in and you will see it grow regradless what other COGOP churches are saying or doing.

[RamboPreacher]

...What I see that is wrong with COGOP, is there no outreach for USA people. It is great that we reach out to other countries but we fail to reach out to our own people. Why you may ask, because the American people is flooded with religion, good or bad. They are hard to witness to and are difficult to reach.

maybe not, but not because of HQ; especially when they make available like the most recent LDI. I was, quite frankly - amazed - that there were no more people there last week.

So start reaching out and impacting the community that your church is in and you will see it grow regradless what other COGOP churches are saying or doing.

zactly.

[Pastor Gary]

...the most recent LDI. I was, quite frankly - amazed - that there were no more people there last week.

Kind of hard for folks from here to take a week+ off work, fly 4,500 miles, pay for hotels and meals, etc. when they are barely holding onto their jobs and income in an ultra-high-cost-of-living area.

I am working on a MASTERS degree online... can't we video these kinds of training sessions and make them available for people in the field instead of always expecting a big event crowd?

I can watch entire courses from STANFORD on iTunes... we ought to be able to video a few great teachers and put them online.

[beckrl]

...the most recent LDI. I was, quite frankly - amazed - that there were no more people there last week.

Kind of hard for folks from here to take a week+ off work, fly 4,500 miles, pay for hotels and meals, etc. when they are barely holding onto their jobs and income in an ultra-high-cost-of-living area.

I am working on a MASTERS degree online... can't we video these kinds of training sessions and make them available for people in the field instead of always expecting a big event crowd?

I can watch entire courses from STANFORD on iTunes... we ought to be able to video a few great teachers and put them online.

Now that's an idea That's progressive

[RamboPreacher]

...the most recent LDI. I was, quite frankly - amazed - that there were no more people there last week.

Kind of hard for folks from here to take a week+ off work, fly 4,500 miles, pay for hotels and meals, etc. when they are barely holding onto their jobs and income in an ultra-high-cost-of-living area.

I am working on a MASTERS degree online... can't we video these kinds of training sessions and make them available for people in the field instead of always expecting a big event crowd?

I can watch entire courses from STANFORD on iTunes... we ought to be able to video a few great teachers and put them online.

undestood for you and folks like me (even from teh Midwest, it's a lot of expense), but isn't the "core" of the COGOP in the SE? I understand that it is a week off of worm but even considering that - I still find it amazing that there wasn't more of at least a SE contingent attending.