It's the gospel folks.....

[one love]

One love,

While you may have the spirit of humility, you and I both know you have heard preachers get on rants about particular "sins" and just ride that horse to death.

While most of the folks sitting there agree and they all have a big ole time cause they ain't doing any of that evil stuff.!!!!

I began this thread to address the issue of "speach hate" causing us to lose our ability to preach against sin. I have never heard "one" sermon on homosexuality able to cover the subject very well. I have sat through hours of classes and still don't know all the answers.

My point is that preachers need to use wisdom in the presentation of the gospel. Paul also said, "I became all things to all men, that I might by all means win some".....Do you think he became a homosexual to reach them? No, of course not. But he had to at least tolerate them to reach them.

That is all I am saying. If you preach sermons of intollerance, you will alienate people and they won't hear your gospel.

Alright I think I am now understanding you. Help me if I am incorrect. You are simply saying that you do not condemn anyone that walks into your church and harp on certain sins. You just introduce them to Christ and allow him to change them, THEN disciple? Is that correct?

Because that is how I feel. I have had people I have invited to church say to me that they would come to church and get saved but they need to quit this, that and the other first... My answer is always NO you just need to come to Christ as you are and he will change you, clean you up and make your life a wonderful journey. I do preach against sin as well! I do believe in preaching different subject at different times as I feel led.

I do not ONLY just preach salvation and that you can be blessed etc.....


"I became all things to all men that some might be saved"

That is one of my favorite verses. He became rich to the rich, poor to the poor, educated to the educated etc...... that he could win some. Talk to the poor or to kings.

It is actually best way to describe a good sales man


BTW one of my very close friends WAS a homosexual and now is working hard for the LORD!!!!! I had the privilege to pray with him as he received the Holy ghost at a regional convention!


BTW yes I know some that harp on the same thing over and over and over and over and over again.....

[Pastorbps]

My concern is with the Gospel message. We need to know what it is and it must be protected at all costs. I get very concerned when people talk about the Gospel of the love of Christ because I don't think that tells the whole story. If I come across as aggressive or accusatory I apologize but I think clarity is IMPERATIVE when it comes to the Gospel message.
Dr. Ron mentioned Billy Graham's results and asked others to show their results.
Results? What do I have to do with results? What does Billy Graham have to do with results? Herein lies the problem. I'm not called on to produce results but to preach the Gospel. People think we are responsible for the response people have to the Gospel. We measure our success by the number of people who respond to the Gospel. If we don't have a large number who respond by saying "Yes" to Jesus then we have not been successful. Our success should be measured by how faithfully we are working to declare the Gospel not in how people respond to the Gospel.

We treat the Gospel like a method. When methods don't work, we update them. When the Gospel is not producing results we are tempted to update it to produce the desired results. Methods change but the Gospel does not.

Our true success lies in faithfully DECLARING the Gospel message and not in the RESPONSES to the Gospel message. While all of us would like everyone to respond positively, the reality is many do not and will not. That's hard to swallow and because people want so badly for people to respond positively, they begin to tamper with the message to get the positive response.
Instead of asking "Will you "Repent" and 'accept' Jesus as Lord?", people change it to say, "Do you receive forgiveness and "confess" Jesus as Lord?" Subtle changes but one holds power and the other does not.

People say, "I'm getting more "Yes(s)" than you." Great! but are we asking the same question? I'm asking will you repent? and people say "No." Another asks, "Do you want to be forgiven?" and the same person says "Yes." To say "No" to repentance and "Yes" to forgiveness doesn't Save someone.

This is tremendously important to understand in a Post-Christian United States and Europe. People are hardened and calloused, pleasure crazed and in no mood to change. If we are results oriented and the world refuses to change, what do you do? Do you change the message or do you keep preaching the truth.

We must be more concerned with making sure we are delivering an intact Gospel message to the world and handing that Gospel INTACT to the next generation than whether people are responding to the message. We weep for them as Jeremiah did his generation but we cannot change the message. "A lie may make someone feel better but only the truth will set them free."

Look at 2 Cor 2:15-17
15 For we are unto God a sweet savour of Christ, in them that are saved, and in them that perish:
16 To the one we are the savour of death unto death; and to the other the savour of life unto life. And who is sufficient for these things?
17 For we are not as many, which corrupt the word of God: but as of sincerity, but as of God, in the sight of God speak we in Christ.[/i]

[paul]

[Pastorbps"]

People think we are responsible for the response people have to the Gospel. We measure our success by the number of people who respond to the Gospel. If we don't have a large number who respond by saying "Yes" to Jesus then we have not been successful. Our success should be measured by how faithfully we are working to declare the Gospel not in how people respond to the Gospel.

Again I do not see the correlation in your statements. For me, their is a vast difference in effectiveness and numbers. To me billy Graham has been extremely effective in soul winning over the years, which has resulted in large numbers coming to Christ.

Today the greatest struggle the church has, especially with the younger generation is be effective in showing the relevance of the Church and the Christian Message in today's society. As yoou well put it a society that has to a great deal hardened their hearts.

I have been given a command by Christ, yoou stated it. To preach the gospel to every creature and to go to the world with this message. I am endeavoring to do so. but I also want to be effective in sharing the message I have been given. I want every word as much as possible to not only line up to the scriptures but also to the principle that Christ has laid down. His love, His compassion, His passion, and His willingness to make the supreme sacrifice.

If I can come close then I believe I will be effective, and prayerfully that will lead to many coming to Christ.

[Pastorbps]

The Gospel is always effective if delivered in its proper form. As Paul said, "It is either the savor of life or death." It does not always result in positive response. Response has nothing to do with effectiveness. The fruitfulness of a seed is determined by the soil it falls on not in whether the seed is faulty or if the the sower is a professional or not. Seed on good ground produces fruit. My point is people are seeing a lack of positive responses and they have determined there is something wrong with the seed (Gospel) when in actuality there is something wrong with the soil (the people who are hearing the Gospel). In response, the sower begins to tamper with the seed rendering it incapable of producing life.

I have had missionaries come in from all over the world. Some report great harvests while some report very little results. Who was doing their job? Both but those who are in difficult areas become discouraged because they measure themselves against those in more fertile areas.

As far as this generation needing the Gospel to be "relevant," I think that is a very prideful attitude. The Gospel is relevant, this generation just doesn't always like what it implies or requires and I see no need to shoot lasers and blow smoke to get them to accept its "relevance."

[Dr. Ron]

Pastorbps,

Wow, how wrong I have been all these years to think that effectiveness was equated to response. What school did I go to?

So what you are saying is : I don't have to do anything but show up, preach, give an invitation, and dadgumit, they have to do the rest. If they don't then it's just tough for them. Now I know very well this is not what you mean, but it is the impression.

I did not use Billy Graham as an example of numbers per se, but of the purity of the Gospel he preaches. The apostle Paul said something like: " For I am not ashamed of the gospel of Christ for it is the power of God unto salvation". How difficult is that to understand.

[pastorables]

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Romans 12:9 Let love be without hypocrisy. Abhor what is evil; cling to what is good.

I am fully aware that the Gospel is love. I realize that every ounce of ministry hangs upon love.

My point is that we can't love effectively without abhorring evil effectively. The definition of God's love is much more comprehensive than Plato's version.

For every scripture dealing with love, we find a scripture dealing with sin. My earlier remarks concerning Moral Relativity in the church is due to the perceived notion by some influential ministries today that we can love the sin out of people without recognizing the aspects of Revelation, Remorse, Repentance, Revival, and Reformation. (kudos to pastorbps and his thoughts)

God's love is certainly much more comprehensive than "phileo" alone and that is what the church often does with it... we create an user-friendly atmosphere that is so none threatening to the sinner they never view their sins as anything more than natural idiosyncrasies, etc...

God's love is "agape" and that often requires a tough love that isn't intimidated by a politically correct landscape. A love that will "pull them out of the fire, hating the garments defiled by the flesh".

These thoughts are not directed toward any of my friends and acquaintances on Jude2. I'm just really weary of national ministries who "s*ck up" to the world to be politically correct concerning various agendas labeled abominable by the Gospel of Christ.

Let's preach the Truth in love.

pa

[Dr. Ron]

Abhor evil to the max......love the evil person to the max.

Just because you "abhor" and evil doesn't mean you have to preach a series on it. Yes, it should be taught to NEW believers. I hate evil as much as the next person, but I am not going to alienate them before I have the opportunity to present Christ to them....

That is still what this is all about.

But, obviously, it is easy to preach about sin......when we are not guilty of it.....btw, how many sermons do you hear on gossip, slander, hatred,.....and the list goes on.......