I have had enough of New Ageish Worship music.

[dawgs10]

by the way i have never seen as much showmanship than as the Gathers!! its a huge show!!!! but many love them and think thats the way you worship. not me but many!!

[Gerald Creasy]

i like what i heard a few weeks ago. if you or your church is still debating worship music or style you are years behind. even decades.

And yet that sentiment is nonsense.

It assumes there can be no error, inferiority, or problem with that area of ministry. And if there is you shouldnt discuss it.

My issues is not so much "style" as "content":
Repetition instead of depth,
appealing to the emotions and not the mind.


I even stumbled across the topic on a secular musicians forum.

[dawgs10]

i understand what your saying!! the point i am making is there are people that will not be happy with music at church no matter what direction you take. But, the fact is music is always top 2 or 3 when polling for church growth. we could sing psalms to slow music and i would not get anything out of it. i am sure if king david knew the lyrics to hillsong he would have loved it. why because he was a worshiper. yes lyrics are important but they are no more important than preparing people thru worship to open there hearts to a sermon. that is what most new worship music is designed to do. (not to preach the sermon but to prepare for it).

[MrDanger]

I agree. I long for the depth of "I'll Fly Away" "Try Jesus" "When We All Get to Heaven" "Precious Memories" and "Looooooove. Lifted. Meeeeeeeee." Those shallow kids. They need to get off our lawn."

[EagerBeaver]

I agree. I long for the depth of "I'll Fly Away" "Try Jesus" "When We All Get to Heaven" "Precious Memories" and "Looooooove. Lifted. Meeeeeeeee." Those shallow kids. They need to get off our lawn."

hehehehe

Sometimes, the songs that bless us the most are the most simple. I often think this generation tries too hard to, as Brandon put it, kiss the face of God that they overlook the fact He's right here already.

[Gerald Creasy]

I agree. I long for the depth of "I'll Fly Away" "Try Jesus" "When We All Get to Heaven" "Precious Memories" and "Looooooove. Lifted. Meeeeeeeee." Those shallow kids. They need to get off our lawn."

Actually "Love lifted me." is a theological masterpiece compared to some of the airheaded stuff we sing today.

I can't recall any that mention our soul is in danger at any point in time.

"When we all get to heaven" cannot be sung today because of this verse:

While we walk the pilgrim pathway,
Clouds will overspread the sky;
But when trav’ling days are over,
Not a shadow, not a sigh.

This invalidates most of what Pentecosalism has embraced ( I e Jesus has died so you can be all you can be)...you're supposed to have health and wealth and prosperity and cars with leather seats and houses that are grand cause your faith is grand. And a big Joel Osteen grin with blow dried hair. There are NO shadows in modern day Chrsitianity. If there are you just dont have enough Faith!!!

[bibleguy]

Not that I disagree with you Gerald, but does it mean more when the song is rich with Theology? Does it mean less if we are singing about God's rain (I assume that means blessings/spirit/healing/touch/ministering) down from above?
I don't care much for the repetition either but I certainly wouldn't say it is devoid of meaning and the ability to bring one into the presence of God. After all, all one needs to do to come into Gods presence is for them to step into it. Sometimes that takes a mindset that pushes ourselves out of the way.
Sometimes I think that emotionalism gets a bad rap. Emotion isn't bad/sin. God is described as Love, an emotion by my understanding. (not saying that God is an emotion) but He moves on the heart, again, with deep rich heart felt emotion.

Just a thought......

Thats just it Brian. Why should one have to assume?

I kept thinking when the Rain Episode was going on:

A guy walks in off the street. He has no Christian experience.

What does he hear for five or ten miniutes? These people repeating (if it was any shorter it would be a chant) "We want rain"
I seriously doubt singing about rain with no elaboration would spiritually bless or illuminate.

Theres nothing wrong with emotions: But singing endlessley with maudlin heart rending music just waiting and hope someone will get a little emotional and start crying or sqealing or running to the altar is just plain nuts.

Agreed Gerald. I like some of the newer songs, but the old hymns, if nothing else, reveal a depth of scriptural understanding coupled with poetic inspiration that is dreadfully lacking in much of the modern music. I remember (I think it was PTL) a song "We're it, we're it, we're it we're it we're it, we're it...)

There is some repetition in the biblical psalms, however they are not mindless mantras, but expressions of awe at the power and faithfulness of God. I would totally be behind more songs of that type, even if they were "new."

[bibleguy]

The problem stems from attitude. I remember hearing Amy Grant in an interview where she said something like, "With my music, I try to get as close to pop music without crossing the line." She had set her direction towards the world. Soon after she was singing "worldly" music.

Some have said, "Why should the world have all of the good music?" While it is a style issue in some cases it is a poor attitude to want to take something from the world and worship God with it. Remember the story when Saul went to war against the Amalekites? God said, “Now go and smite Amalek, and utterly destroy all that they have, and spare them not; but slay both man and woman, infant and suckling, ox and sheep, camel and ass.” (1 Samuel 15:3)

God did not want anything the Amalekites had. It was an abomination to him. "But Saul and the people spared Agag, and the best of the sheep, and of the oxen, and of the fatlings, and the lambs, and all that was good, and would not utterly destroy them" (verse 9). Why did they spare them? Saul said, "for the people spared the best of the sheep and of the oxen, to sacrifice unto the LORD thy God" (verse 15). They kept the best of the heathens beasts to offer to God.

Was God pleased with such an offering? No. He did not want even their best! For this disobedience, Saul lost the claim to kingdom, and the Lord rejected him!

Today, we Christians often look to the world for their best, so that we can Christianize it and offer it up in worship to the Lord. We need to consider the fact that perhaps even their best is not acceptable in the sight of the Lord. We need to make sure that we find out what God wants in terms of worship, and offer Him that alone.

Lord give us men like Heman, Jeduthan, and Asaph, that we might be "instructed in the songs of the Lord."

[Gerald Creasy]

Perhaps too thre is a tendancy to look and the "song service" (as it used to be called) as "Worship" and not much more else.

Why is being attentive to a preacher NOT worship?
Why is offerig not Worship?
Why is Bible study NOT worship?
Why is my care for those I know who are suffering not worship?
Why is fellowship not worship?

[RaceRunner]

Perhaps too thre is a tendancy to look and the "song service" (as it used to be called) as "Worship" and not much more else.

Why is being attentive to a preacher NOT worship?
Why is offerig not Worship?
Why is Bible study NOT worship?
Why is my care for those I know who are suffering not worship?
Why is fellowship not worship?

It IS all worship.

Especially the preaching/teaching and attentiveness to The Word of God.

[Brian]

Not that I disagree with you Gerald, but does it mean more when the song is rich with Theology? Does it mean less if we are singing about God's rain (I assume that means blessings/spirit/healing/touch/ministering) down from above?
I don't care much for the repetition either but I certainly wouldn't say it is devoid of meaning and the ability to bring one into the presence of God. After all, all one needs to do to come into Gods presence is for them to step into it. Sometimes that takes a mindset that pushes ourselves out of the way.
Sometimes I think that emotionalism gets a bad rap. Emotion isn't bad/sin. God is described as Love, an emotion by my understanding. (not saying that God is an emotion) but He moves on the heart, again, with deep rich heart felt emotion.

Just a thought......

Thats just it Brian. Why should one have to assume?

I kept thinking when the Rain Episode was going on:

A guy walks in off the street. He has no Christian experience.

What does he hear for five or ten miniutes? These people repeating (if it was any shorter it would be a chant) "We want rain"
I seriously doubt singing about rain with no elaboration would spiritually bless or illuminate.

Theres nothing wrong with emotions: But singing endlessley with maudlin heart rending music just waiting and hope someone will get a little emotional and start crying or sqealing or running to the altar is just plain nuts.

Agreed Gerald. I like some of the newer songs, but the old hymns, if nothing else, reveal a depth of scriptural understanding coupled with poetic inspiration that is dreadfully lacking in much of the modern music. I remember (I think it was PTL) a song "We're it, we're it, we're it we're it we're it, we're it...)

There is some repetition in the biblical psalms, however they are not mindless mantras, but expressions of awe at the power and faithfulness of God. I would totally be behind more songs of that type, even if they were "new."

I agree with both of you guys. Your right, there is alot lacking in the repetition just for repetition sake. I don't go for hyped up frenzy if it isn't a real move of the Spirit. But don't get me wrong, I'll jump up and dance and run around the church with the best of 'em!! whether that be with the old blue book or no book. he he he

[scooter]

I understand where you are coming from.

It has taken me quite a while to transition.

We have been bluebookless for many years.

I still love to break out in an old hymn now and then and there is something about the familiar song that stirs the soul.

I do see the transition to new "style" worhip not new "age" worship as a positive thing.

It has turned our attention from self to God in a way.

AS I walk, I'll fly, We shall, etc. hold as self centered focus in a way and God knows we could repeat some of those over and over and over and over again.

Newer styles seem to me to focus more on Him.

We were just talking about this this weekend.

I know that life can be worship in and of itself but a study of worship would to produce insight into differing forms of worship, ie kneeling, bowing, hands raised, self sacrifice, none of which should be dismissed because of an understanding that all we do we could do "in worship" to God.

[scooter]

It's bubbling, bubbling, bubbling,

[Gerald Creasy]

I understand where you are coming from.

It has taken me quite a while to transition.

We have been bluebookless for many years.

I still love to break out in an old hymn now and then and there is something about the familiar song that stirs the soul.

I do see the transition to new "style" worhip not new "age" worship as a positive thing.

It has turned our attention from self to God in a way.

AS I walk, I'll fly, We shall, etc. hold as self centered focus in a way and God knows we could repeat some of those over and over and over and over again.

Newer styles seem to me to focus more on Him.

We were just talking about this this weekend.

I know that life can be worship in and of itself but a study of worship would to produce insight into differing forms of worship, ie kneeling, bowing, hands raised, self sacrifice, none of which should be dismissed because of an understanding that all we do we could do "in worship" to God.

Really I must emphasize:

I like the older BECAUSE OF THEIR DEPTH of Bible,
If the neweer had such depth I would like it too.

I watched very closely the songs yeterday. One got a C+.


It is not style.
I have sat in "worship services" that had ONLY an accordian, and in one Kentucky church an overturned washtub with a stick and a string for a bass...and I have set in them with organ, keyboards, piano, drums and trumpet.
The style of the music is not the issue.

[scooter]

Really I must emphasize:

I like the older BECAUSE OF THEIR DEPTH of Bible,
If the neweer had such depth I would like it too.

I watched very closely the songs yeterday. One got a C+.


It is not style.
I have sat in "worship services" that had ONLY an accordian, and in one Kentucky church an overturned washtub with a stick and a string for a bass...and I have set in them with organ, keyboards, piano, drums and trumpet.
The style of the music is not the issue.

Response: I hear ya.