How come most denominations have cut men's Ministry? We have Women's Ministry, Youth Ministry & Children's Ministry. We employ people to direct these ministries but leave Men's Ministry out. Why?
Most churches make a bigger deal over Mother's day than Father's Day. Why? Are not men important?
Doesn't statistics prove that if we win the father, we win the family? Then why don't we put our focus & energies into winning men? Why do we have so many Women's Retreats but yet no Men's Retreats?
Most churches have a Women's Ministry but it's hard to find a church with a Men's Ministry. Why? Hmmmm!
Men's Ministry
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Men's Ministry
"No, I am just telling you what the Word says" -Vestal Goodman
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RamboPreacher
- RamboPreacher
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I'm not saying life isn't fun without women. I have one that I've been really keen on for over 17 years!
And Rambo, I think every church should have a Men's Ministry. But what message is the denomination sending when they don't employ a Men's Ministry Director but do employ Women's, Youth & Children's Ministry Directors? Are men not important?
And it's not just, COGOP. If you look this is a trend with all the major denominations.
And Rambo, I think every church should have a Men's Ministry. But what message is the denomination sending when they don't employ a Men's Ministry Director but do employ Women's, Youth & Children's Ministry Directors? Are men not important?
And it's not just, COGOP. If you look this is a trend with all the major denominations.
"No, I am just telling you what the Word says" -Vestal Goodman
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RamboPreacher
- RamboPreacher
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ahh - i see.
well, I personally think that this is "our" fault. men want to be in control, and if HQ could have organized more regional retreats and other direct ministry, it could have. the challenge (from my limited POV) is that the men in the various states and regions are controlling of their own ministries, and anything being "pushed" down from HQ is "offensive" to the local (state/regional) men's ministries. not enough submission.
I could be completely wrong, but that's what I perceived when we had a men's ministry from HQ and any kinds of activities and ministry was tried, it had little or no support at the state/local region.
The paradigm was not quite the same with the woman's ministries. I am not privy to the origins of the HQ woman's ministry, but I know how it works now (after having worked with the Payne's for some years at local/region-retreats), adn other communications.
maybe comparing woman's and men's ministries at that level is apples and oranges, but the attitudes are different. I recall Brother Eskew and I talked at some length about men's ministries and his advice when I first began that when he started something local , it was over 5 years before anything became of that ministry, and that was with a church of hundreds.
Men are (generally speaking) very hesitant, in having fellowship and that kind of ministry, unfortunately. especially in a "small church" setting, where there are only a handful or two of men in the first place. so to have something be "directed" from "the ivory tower", so to speak - just makes matters worse.
Either the men's ministry at an organization level needs to start from scratch at the origin of the organization (in my opinion), or that ministry needs to only give assistance to local ministries for many, many years, before it can become anything nearing "self-supporting" (and will otherwise need to be supported from outside that ministry).
Men have been doing their own men's retreats (or not) for so long, it would take a long time, indeed (again, my opinion) before any continued changes could happen like that.
Men do need to have fellowship and ministry. Men do need to be accountable to each other, but the real-life experience of most of us men is that we have been beaten, stabbed in the back, betrayed, lied about, etc... and it is hard for us (essentially logic driven vs emotionally driven) to get back on that horse.
as an example: when women have their meetings and it comes to discussions of women-stuff/personal nature - it is never brought up, hinted at or otherwise discussed at any level in public. Not sure why that can't happen in a men's meeting. our local men's meetings are like that and is enforced, but we are a small group of a dozen or so guys.
guys want to lead, or be know as leaders - not the guy who let's the woman lead the house. we bring home the bacon, so to speak, and that extends to the spiritual side. so when a man knows his wife is more "spiritual" as a leader, he doesn't want to interfere (usually, necessarily), but he will take such a back seat that he isn't known at all, instead of being known as being in that back seat.
what's the incentive to try to step up, especially if he doesn't know how? thus the need for the small group, intimate, local men's meetings. and then this is a many-years process, and not something that will change over night.
but just rambling now.
bottom line - men's ministry is very important, but men want it to happen now as a leader of that ministry, but the men participating take a very long time to develop the relationships needed to make that ministry viable, successful, and a continued disciple'd ministry.
that's the paradox. we need a ministry to minister and to be ministered to. though nobody (well, few, anyway) wants to take the time to do what's necessary.
well, I personally think that this is "our" fault. men want to be in control, and if HQ could have organized more regional retreats and other direct ministry, it could have. the challenge (from my limited POV) is that the men in the various states and regions are controlling of their own ministries, and anything being "pushed" down from HQ is "offensive" to the local (state/regional) men's ministries. not enough submission.
I could be completely wrong, but that's what I perceived when we had a men's ministry from HQ and any kinds of activities and ministry was tried, it had little or no support at the state/local region.
The paradigm was not quite the same with the woman's ministries. I am not privy to the origins of the HQ woman's ministry, but I know how it works now (after having worked with the Payne's for some years at local/region-retreats), adn other communications.
maybe comparing woman's and men's ministries at that level is apples and oranges, but the attitudes are different. I recall Brother Eskew and I talked at some length about men's ministries and his advice when I first began that when he started something local , it was over 5 years before anything became of that ministry, and that was with a church of hundreds.
Men are (generally speaking) very hesitant, in having fellowship and that kind of ministry, unfortunately. especially in a "small church" setting, where there are only a handful or two of men in the first place. so to have something be "directed" from "the ivory tower", so to speak - just makes matters worse.
Either the men's ministry at an organization level needs to start from scratch at the origin of the organization (in my opinion), or that ministry needs to only give assistance to local ministries for many, many years, before it can become anything nearing "self-supporting" (and will otherwise need to be supported from outside that ministry).
Men have been doing their own men's retreats (or not) for so long, it would take a long time, indeed (again, my opinion) before any continued changes could happen like that.
Men do need to have fellowship and ministry. Men do need to be accountable to each other, but the real-life experience of most of us men is that we have been beaten, stabbed in the back, betrayed, lied about, etc... and it is hard for us (essentially logic driven vs emotionally driven) to get back on that horse.
as an example: when women have their meetings and it comes to discussions of women-stuff/personal nature - it is never brought up, hinted at or otherwise discussed at any level in public. Not sure why that can't happen in a men's meeting. our local men's meetings are like that and is enforced, but we are a small group of a dozen or so guys.
guys want to lead, or be know as leaders - not the guy who let's the woman lead the house. we bring home the bacon, so to speak, and that extends to the spiritual side. so when a man knows his wife is more "spiritual" as a leader, he doesn't want to interfere (usually, necessarily), but he will take such a back seat that he isn't known at all, instead of being known as being in that back seat.
what's the incentive to try to step up, especially if he doesn't know how? thus the need for the small group, intimate, local men's meetings. and then this is a many-years process, and not something that will change over night.
but just rambling now.
bottom line - men's ministry is very important, but men want it to happen now as a leader of that ministry, but the men participating take a very long time to develop the relationships needed to make that ministry viable, successful, and a continued disciple'd ministry.
that's the paradox. we need a ministry to minister and to be ministered to. though nobody (well, few, anyway) wants to take the time to do what's necessary.
Last edited by RamboPreacher on May 30th, 2009, 5:05 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Thanks, Brent "RamboPreacher" Hoefling
men's ministry...
All of these "ministries" are important if they serve the purposes of the church in doing the work of ministry....Just a bunch of guys setting around talking about scripture is not a men's ministry...
Ours is a "work ministry'......
Ours is a "work ministry'......
Dr. Ron
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Pastor Gary
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Re: men's ministry...
Dr. Ron wrote:All of these "ministries" are important if they serve the purposes of the church in doing the work of ministry....Just a bunch of guys setting around talking about scripture is not a men's ministry...
Ours is a "work ministry'......
Here, too... we had a work day today and more Christian fellowship happened during the task-oriented time than at any Men's Retreat I can remember.
"God is excited to show you mercy. He rises to give you His compassion." (Isaiah 30:18)
"For surely, O LORD, you bless the righteous; you surround them with your favor as with a shield." (Psalm 5:12)
"For surely, O LORD, you bless the righteous; you surround them with your favor as with a shield." (Psalm 5:12)
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RamboPreacher
- RamboPreacher
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- Joined: July 17th, 2004, 5:41 pm
- Location: USA, Texas
Re: men's ministry...
did you read that ours (or Brother Eskew's) wasn't a "working ministry" out of my post? if you did, then you would be incorrect.Dr. Ron wrote:....Just a bunch of guys setting around talking about scripture is not a men's ministry...
Thanks, Brent "RamboPreacher" Hoefling
Pg, that's part of my point. Could you imagine if our Region/States would employ a Men's Ministry Director who would help unite men not just for weekend retreats or the ocassional golf outing, but to help repair small struggling churches? I think a vibrant Men's ministry could have more of an effect than a Women's Ministry.
I think that we need to have the ocassional weekend retreat to minister to the spiritual needs. I think that golf outings are great and help build frindships, along with basketball camps, softball teams, etc.. .
Our District held a Men's Breakfast awhile back. I was amazed that over 150 men showed up! And these were on fire men, ready to serve. Just think if those 150 plus men got together to help a local church!
But how can you expect local churches or Regions to do what the denominational HQ's doesn't even support?
Here's another rambling... how come missions always falls under Women's Ministry? Are men incapable?
I think that we need to have the ocassional weekend retreat to minister to the spiritual needs. I think that golf outings are great and help build frindships, along with basketball camps, softball teams, etc.. .
Our District held a Men's Breakfast awhile back. I was amazed that over 150 men showed up! And these were on fire men, ready to serve. Just think if those 150 plus men got together to help a local church!
But how can you expect local churches or Regions to do what the denominational HQ's doesn't even support?
Here's another rambling... how come missions always falls under Women's Ministry? Are men incapable?
"No, I am just telling you what the Word says" -Vestal Goodman
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