I have had enough of New Ageish Worship music.

[soulsearcher]

Galations 2:20
I am crucified with Christ: nevertheless I live; yet not I, but Christ liveth in me: and the life which I now live in the flesh I live by the faith of the Son of God, who loved me, and gave himself for me.

Philippians 4:13
I can do all things through Christ which strengtheneth me.

If I am crucified with Christ, and Christ lives in me, I can do all things, including going to the enemy's camp, or on the battlefield, or crying out (as the elders around the throne), "Holy, Holy, Holy," over and over again. Because it's not really me doing any of this - it's Him. At least it better be.

[paul]

Gee sounds like my life. Maybe a song of testimony ?

True we are made overcomers by the word of our testimony BUT this is not Worship. Sing it during testimony time. In fact most people have trod in distant lands Paul so to sing it is a lie.

IMHO, my testimony is an act of worship, as has already been stated, our giving, by breathing, our daily routine, every thing we are, everything we do every song we sing is an act of worship unto God. If one narrows himself to a certain type, style, or lryics as his definition of worship. That person is short changing themselves.

Do I like some styles more than others? Absolutely. But I have worshipped in situations where I had no idea of what was being said, and talk about repetition...... bongo type drums and tamborenes. But man was the presence of the Lord there.

[Mike Vande]

Galations 2:20
I am crucified with Christ: nevertheless I live; yet not I, but Christ liveth in me: and the life which I now live in the flesh I live by the faith of the Son of God, who loved me, and gave himself for me.
Philippians 4:13
I can do all things through Christ which strengtheneth me.

Ah, context! It can make the difference between heresy and truth...

If I am crucified with Christ, and Christ lives in me, I can do all things, including going to the enemy's camp, or on the battlefield, or crying out (as the elders around the throne), "Holy, Holy, Holy," over and over again.

Grow an amputated limb back on a returning soldier from Iraq, restore the shattered mind of a combat vet who's seen too many of his buddies blown into shreds, or even better, go out to the battlefield and pull their shreds all back together. Do all that, and don't talk about doing all things through Christ if you can't.

Then, show me one scripture that says we should to give glory, honor and praise to anyone besides Our Lord Father, Jesus Christ, or the Holy Spirit for doing anything, rather than the God who strengthened us to do it.

Because it's not really me doing any of this - it's Him. At least it better be.

Tell it to Jim Jones. He would have loved that song...

[soulsearcher]

Mike, I am nothing or can do nothing without Christ. For decades the enemy used my feelings of unworthiness to steal any amount of joy I felt in thinking God had possibly used me. I now realize that it is Christ working in me that makes any impact.

My remarks on this post were only in relation to the topic of worship through music, which I personally happen to believe does not concern style, certainly not my ability to perform miracles.

[bibleguy]

There is so much to take issue with on the new music, bickering over "testimonial" songs like "On the Battlefield" seems petty. Mike says CONTEXT, On the Battlefield definitely includes context: I was alone and idle (that's when things were bad) ... I heard a voice from heaven saying, 'there is work to do' (not my work, but His whose voice I heard) ... I took my Master's hand (That's when things got good).

I do see the "I went to the enemy's camp..." argument, in that it does seem to lack that type of context.

Jude admonishes us to "contend earnestly for the faith." Many old hymns use testimonial imagery, and while they do it from a first person perspective, they don't deny or omit the fact that it is God's grace alone that enables that testimony.

David wrote Psalms not only about God's greatness, but also about his love for God's chosen city: Jerusalem, and the holy Mount Zion. The application of that to songs about "the Church" is also valid. "For Zion's sake will I not hold my peace, and for Jerusalem’s sake I will not rest, until the righteousness thereof go forth as brightness, and the salvation thereof as a lamp that burneth." "If I forget thee, O Jerusalem, let my right hand forget her cunning." But in our effort to "be as the other churches" we have rejected any affection for the idea of a chosen people, an elect Church. The City remains unbuilt, and fewer and fewer people care.

[dawgs10]

i have a great book that is on this subject. Who Stole My Chruch? by Gordon Macdonald. On one occasion... while DL Moody was singing a solo in Scotland a womans shrill voice was heard in the gallery, as she made her way toward the door crying: Let me oot! Let me oot! What would John Knox think of the likes of you. John Knox was a great Sots reformer. why? because he was singing a solo to music!!!! never had been done before. Most of those people were Calvinists who insisted that the only legitimate songs worth singing were psalms...or Isaac Watts songs. They refused to accept an up-to-date version that was not psalms or isaac watts. many do that today!!! I would love for some of you guys to read the book. it has some facts about the history of music in the church. it will make you think. but hey, this thred helped give me a sermon for last night and it was one of the best services i have ever preached. of course God had ever thing to do with that!!! also check out what is worship? forever/hillsong on youtube. it says it all.

[Mike Vande]

HEy, my sister attends a Church of Christ with older members that say things like

[Pastor Bill]

I undestand what Gerald is saying though, it's not all about it being new, but I have seen some churches that have moved to some new music that has a real lack of depth, and that seems to be a chosen direction.

Now I do have to say that not all "new" music has this lack of depth, as some can be even deeper. I think it is something we need to thing about, are we choosing songs for their depth and worship value, or are some valuing the vagueness of them? it almost appears that way with some.

[dolfan]

My sister in law's husband is a music minister at a local COG church. They sing a lot of the P/W stuff. And, one day, my SIL and I were talking about the songs that are popular with young Christians now. She said that they are "dark" in their mood. She said that she didn't remember being that pessimistic and dark when she was young. It struck me that she's got a point. My wife has a Barlow Girl CD that I think is okay as far as style goes. There's a song called "I'm Never Alone" (I think that's the title), and my daughter loves it. Very somber tone to it, some pretty heart-wrenching emotions expressed, but my daughter apparently shares my ear for melodies and it appeals to her. She can sing it almost verbatim. But, it's dark sounding.

"I cried out with no reply
And I can't feel You by my side
So I'll hold tight to what I know
You're here and I"m never alone

And though I cannot see You
And I can't explain why
Such a deep, deep reassurance
You've placed in my life

We cannot separate
'Cause You're part of me
And though You're invisible
I'll trust the unseen"

That's not all of it, but enough to make the point. She asked me early after hearing it for the first time what it was about. I explained to her (and, yes, Gerald, it uses the 'You' -- and I am also not skippy about all that, but that's another post ) that it is a girl's prayer to God that she knows He is faithful to be with her even if she doesn't feel like He's there with her when bad things happen. I explained to her, and I think she understood, sometimes God gets very quiet and doesn't tell us He's with us when bad things happen. But, I explained, Jesus promised that He's always with us and that God has us in His hands even if we don't really feel like it. That's about as well as I could put words to it for her.

My point is that there is a dark tone to some songs, and my question is to you whether you think that these darker tones (even where the lyrics are not pushing any envelopes away from acknowledging God by name) are harmful or somehow not good? Personally, I don't think it is hurting anything and that we are often dark and in the dark, so why not sing about it. (Which reminds me, I told my daughter that there was a king of God's people who's son died as a baby and who lost his family and his own son tried to kill him, and that he prayed a song that sounded a lot like that one, and I paraphrased part of Psalm 139 that, "if I am in the sky, there you are; if I'm laying down with the dead, there you are; if I'm drowning, you're there").

Are some songs too dark?

[dawgs10]

as a youth pastor i know that a lot young people are very dark. growing up in religion did that along with bad home lives and many of them are looking for attention. but the case here is many are turning back to God with a style that does not fit churchy people and churchy churchs. they dont want to fit in to that mold and they are not going to. the stand is a love song and a proclamation to God by hillsong united. one of my faves at the moment. they are dark in there style. millions of young people a coming to God because of them. you dont have to be a bible scholar to get that it is from God if you go to one of the services they do and see the outcome.