onelove???

[TW]

I will start anew and ask . . .

onelove,
Quote:

So by some comments here I would have to assume I should turn in my license based on my past! hmmm. Paul should have to seeing how he was a murderer. I pray for this man and his ministry.

Could you post chapter and verse to support this? You have made a claim that I don't believe can be supported by Biblical evidence.


TW

[Full Quiver]

Paul consented to Stephen's death so some make him to be the murderer. Consent to another's death is equal to child molestation I suppose.

Under the Jewish law Stephen was worthy of death and it was no more murder than for a convicted criminal to be put to death by the state by lethal injection.

[one love]

I will start anew and ask . . .

onelove,
Quote:

So by some comments here I would have to assume I should turn in my license based on my past! hmmm. Paul should have to seeing how he was a murderer. I pray for this man and his ministry.

Could you post chapter and verse to support this? You have made a claim that I don't believe can be supported by Biblical evidence.


TW

I was simply stating that Paul persecuted the church and many were killed at that time. If my wording was incorrect forgive me or show me what you feel is incorrect. Thanks.

[rough_rider]

Paul consented to Stephen's death so some make him to be the murderer. Consent to another's death is equal to child molestation I suppose.

Paul does claim out of all the sinners, he was the worst of all, and I would bet they had child molesters back then also.


1Ti 1:15 This is a faithful saying, and worthy of all acceptation, that Christ Jesus came into the world to save sinners; of whom I am chief.

[Full Quiver]

Paul said he was chief among sinners but was he really?

I say I'm king of the world but am I?

[one love]

My point was simply that he persecuted the church and many were killed by this persecution.

1And Saul was consenting unto his death. And at that time there was a great persecution against the church which was at Jerusalem; and they were all scattered abroad throughout the regions of Judaea and Samaria, except the apostles.

2And devout men carried Stephen to his burial, and made great lamentation over him.

3As for Saul, he made havock of the church, entering into every house, and haling men and women committed them to prison.

58And cast him out of the city, and stoned him: and the witnesses laid down their clothes at a young man's feet, whose name was Saul.

59And they stoned Stephen, calling upon God, and saying, Lord Jesus, receive my spirit.



13Then Ananias answered, Lord, I have heard by many of this man, how much evil he hath done to thy saints at Jerusalem:

14And here he hath authority from the chief priests to bind all that call on thy name.

15But the Lord said unto him, Go thy way: for he is a chosen vessel unto me, to bear my name before the Gentiles, and kings, and the children of Israel:


my point was only that many commit wrongs before salvation, I do not discuss peoples passed sins. This is now only relative to this topic and nothing else. I have talked to Danny and I believe we have come to mutual agreement in our statements and that thread is gone for whatever reason.

Truth be told we were all sinners none better then the other. You could be the best person ever but until repentance you are just as guilty as the worst. That was all I was getting at. Paul persecuted the church, threw them in jail and was at least present when some were murdered. He claimed he was the chief of all sinners, which technically just means he was a sinner like us all. After much damage done by his hands to the church God used him in a MIGHTY way, isn't that just like GOD? He can change anyone.

should Paul have never been used as apostle?

[Pastor Gary]

Paul said he was chief among sinners but was he really?

Well, he either felt he was, or he was a liar... your choice.

[JohnDB]

Paul consented to Stephen's death so some make him to be the murderer. Consent to another's death is equal to child molestation I suppose.

Under the Jewish law Stephen was worthy of death and it was no more murder than for a convicted criminal to be put to death by the state by lethal injection.

Not exactly.
The scepter had been removed from Judah...to use a Genesis reference.
The power of or right to execute capital punishment on it's citizenry was removed from Jewish hands and belonged to Pilate. (Who may have been away or preoccupied at the time of this stoning)
This right was removed right at the time of Jesus' birth by Herod the Great or one of his successors (I have the memory of a dead elephant on some things) The Jews mouned this loss for three weeks wearing sackcloth and ashes as Rome had made God wrong...(in their eyes) Because the Messiah had not come.

So...this stoning was done in the heat of the moment without the consent of Rome. They stoned Stephen because of the inflammatory things that he had said and were livid at Stephen for them.

Under Roman Law all of them (who participated in the stoning) if tried and convicted by someone who actually cared would have recieved the death penalty for acting in such a treasonous fashion. They seen it in a similar fashion as you would if someone else spanked your toddler in front of you.

OK...back to your disagreement...sorry for the interruption.

[Jennifer Smith]

Don't gang up on one another over doctrine.. how is that like Christ...
Love you guys.

[Full Quiver]

Gary, my point is that Paul said that not God. IF God had said Paul was chief among sinners then we could argue this point but God didn't. Paul was showing remorse, repentance, and humility in saying this.

John, I never read where God instructed the Israelites to lay down their law, discipline, etc. for any reason, nation, or man. That's a technicality. Sure they might have to answer to the Romans for this but they felt like they were doing the Lord's work by stoning Stephen and as far as they knew they were.

[rough_rider]

Gary, my point is that Paul said that not God.

Yes, but Paul was indeed inspired by God to write it just that way...

[Full Quiver]

Yes he wrote it and it is a historical fact that he made that statement but not a fact that he was the chief sinner of his time. There is a difference in the Word of God and the word of man as recorded by God.

[rough_rider]

If Paul did not mean what he said(talking off the top of his head), then why did he write the next verse?
I believe Paul understood what he was saying, no doubt in my mind.

1Tim 1:16 Howbeit for this cause I obtained mercy, that in me first Jesus Christ might shew forth all longsuffering, for a pattern to them which should hereafter believe on him to life everlasting.

[Full Quiver]

Yes he understood and believed what he was saying but Eddie I too believe that I am the chiefest of sinners. Don't you feel the same way? Surely Adolf Hitler could have said he was. Just because we say we are doesn't mean we are. Shoot, Adam must have been the chiefest of sinners. He was a punk no doubt!

[rough_rider]

Yes he understood and believed what he was saying but Eddie I too believe that I am the chiefest of sinners. Don't you feel the same way? Surely Adolf Hitler could have said he was. Just because we say we are doesn't mean we are. Shoot, Adam must have been the chiefest of sinners. He was a punk no doubt!

Hey Bro, now we are getting close, here is my point, you, me, onelove, and that Brother this all really started over. All of us, the chiefest of sinners, howbeit for this cause we obtained mercy. Let's face it, none of us is worthy of God's Mercy and Grace. I'm reminded of an old worship song, "Oh how He loves you and me."