How young is to young ?

paul · Postby **paul** » June 14th, 2009, 5:05 pm

recently I posted a few photos of our office in Kenya and a photo of a young girl working as a secretaty. FQ asked me a question as to the age of the young girl. Naska is 16. The question was an honest question. But it got me to thinking.

One thing I have found out on the mission fields is how we relate to age.
Our current director in the Philippines when I first met him was pastoring a church of about 15-20. When I went to speak there I was amazed to see his worship leader who appeared to be about 12. The drummer he told me was 8. He basically staffed his church with what we refer to as children, and these children mostly lived on the streets. But without question the Spirt of God was on these children. Now his church is several hundred, these children are young adults and are powerful leaders.

In most developing countries the tendency is to not look at the age, but rather look at the abilities, gifting and anointing that might be on a young person or even a child.

In our country we seem to do the opposite. We tuck them away in some corner (generalization) until they get to a certain age, then they must ripen (mature) and when they get to a certain age we might consider them ready to be used of God.

I wonder at what age God considers us ready for service ?

justsam · Postby **justsam** » June 14th, 2009, 10:33 pm

There is only one Holy Spirit- and the same Spirit fills and equips every believer to serve the Lord.

God Bless You- Sam Smith

dolfan · Postby **dolfan** » June 15th, 2009, 3:07 am

Good question, good points. Don't know the answer :lol:

but it is a good point.

MacUser · Postby **MacUser** » June 15th, 2009, 6:25 am

Indeed.. I have seen this and pondering similar thoughts.

I also think.. the question is.. what do WE EXPECT as an aging Church group. Some of our mid life adult men/women are still considered youths and the real youth are completely ignored/lost as if time is locked in a bottle. Some are now grandparents!!!

In just one memory.. several years back.. I was approached to do a "Christmas youth play" apparently with other people in my age bracket. I was over 30+ years old then!!! In my frustration.. I calmly reminded the director that we were not YOUTHS any longer and I would be glad to help... but turned around and pointed out where the youths were and I named names and pointed at faces and stated ages. (Those kids were being lost.. and as of today.. yes they are now gone.)

That wasn't well received as I got the impression that they were deemed unreliable to "perform" correctly. It was just an unreal moment.

beckrl · Postby **beckrl** » June 15th, 2009, 7:08 am

That's great I think, for the youth to have a heart for God's work.

But Jesus said, Suffer little children, and forbid them not, to come unto me: for of such is the kingdom of heaven

paul · Postby **paul** » June 15th, 2009, 9:07 am

MacUser wrote:Indeed.. I have seen this and pondering similar thoughts.

I also think.. the question is.. what do WE EXPECT as an aging Church group. Some of our mid life adult men/women are still considered youths and the real youth are completely ignored/lost as if time is locked in a bottle. Some are now grandparents!!!

In just one memory.. several years back.. I was approached to do a "Christmas youth play" apparently with other people in my age bracket. I was over 30+ years old then!!! In my frustration.. I calmly reminded the director that we were not YOUTHS any longer and I would be glad to help... but turned around and pointed out where the youths were and I named names and pointed at faces and stated ages. (Those kids were being lost.. and as of today.. yes they are now gone.)

That wasn't well received as I got the impression that they were deemed unreliable to "perform" correctly. It was just an unreal moment.

McUser,
I was probably one of the most fortunate young persons around growing up cogop in St. Louis. Our youth director (VLB) was named Helen King, she is gone now. But She appointed three young boys as assistant youth leaders. I was 14 at the time.
Each of us would be responsible to put a service program together, we had to arrange the speaker, singers format everything. Have it typed and posted on the buliten borad Sunday night prior to the Tuesday Evening Youth Service.

I am forever greatful for the training I received. But more than the training, was the confidence and trust that she showed to us young boys.

All three of us have spent our lives in full time ministry.

Brian · Postby **Brian** » June 15th, 2009, 10:11 am

I would say that alot of younger people in other countries are far more mature than here at home. Main reason I guess would be they are required to do more and have more responsibility than the young people in America today. Kids around the world, like Paul said, some live alone in the streets! Here in America the kids are still in mom and dads basement until 35. LOL We have helped raise a generation of people who are so dependent on others that they can barely function. I know, I have a 15 year old daughter (whom I love VERY MUCH by the way) who simply couldn't survive on her own if her life depended on it! I know its mainly our fault as her parents but thats where we are in America today. Our younger people have lost maturity and survival skills to be the leaders we see in other parts of the world.
We have become a people of EXTREME convenience living in a country where virtually everything is automated. Nice I know, but I fear it is having a much more harmful effect on our youth than we may fully realize. :oops:

dawgs10 · Postby **dawgs10** » June 15th, 2009, 11:46 am

paul wrote:
MacUser wrote:Indeed.. I have seen this and pondering similar thoughts.

I also think.. the question is.. what do WE EXPECT as an aging Church group. Some of our mid life adult men/women are still considered youths and the real youth are completely ignored/lost as if time is locked in a bottle. Some are now grandparents!!!

In just one memory.. several years back.. I was approached to do a "Christmas youth play" apparently with other people in my age bracket. I was over 30+ years old then!!! In my frustration.. I calmly reminded the director that we were not YOUTHS any longer and I would be glad to help... but turned around and pointed out where the youths were and I named names and pointed at faces and stated ages. (Those kids were being lost.. and as of today.. yes they are now gone.)

That wasn't well received as I got the impression that they were deemed unreliable to "perform" correctly. It was just an unreal moment.

McUser,
I was probably one of the most fortunate young persons around growing up cogop in St. Louis. Our youth director (VLB) was named Helen King, she is gone now. But She appointed three young boys as assistant youth leaders. I was 14 at the time.
Each of us would be responsible to put a service program together, we had to arrange the speaker, singers format everything. Have it typed and posted on the buliten borad Sunday night prior to the Tuesday Evening Youth Service.

I am forever greatful for the training I received. But more than the training, was the confidence and trust that she showed to us young boys.

All three of us have spent our lives in full time ministry.

what a wonderful thing!! what would happen in the united states if people in leadership would allow the young people with annointing to move in it.

paul · Postby **paul** » June 15th, 2009, 12:09 pm

Brian wrote:I would say that alot of younger people in other countries are far more mature than here at home. Main reason I guess would be they are required to do more and have more responsibility than the young people in America today. Kids around the world, like Paul said, some live alone in the streets! Here in America the kids are still in mom and dads basement until 35. LOL We have helped raise a generation of people who are so dependent on others that they can barely function. I know, I have a 15 year old daughter (whom I love VERY MUCH by the way) who simply couldn't survive on her own if her life depended on it! I know its mainly our fault as her parents but thats where we are in America today. Our younger people have lost maturity and survival skills to be the leaders we see in other parts of the world.
We have become a people of EXTREME convenience living in a country where virtually everything is automated. Nice I know, but I fear it is having a much more harmful effect on our youth than we may fully realize.

The old saying is true....we get what we expect. My son Raymond has been teaching in the High School for the performing arts in Milwaukee for 18 years.

His coral groups consistantly take awards for performance. The repitore of the group is beyond most college preformances. He demands excellence, he pushes them beyond the ordinary level. Most all his graduates go on to college with scholorships, colleges and universities around the country come to him constantly to recruit talent for their department.

His students have included A former Miss Wisconsin, Top Ten American Idol performer. And several who went on to make a career in Music.

If we never expect any more for our youth and children we will not get any more.

I fault many of our present leaders in the church, because of their persuit of the croud and competition they have failed in providing a place of opportunity for youth to hone their talents, annointings and giftings.

WHAT IF THEY MAKE A MISTAKE ? HOW WILL THAT LOOK ON THE CHURCH?

I remember as a kid over to the side of the church was a row of kids sitting their with their guitars. None of them knew how to play, they would watch the older guys and try as best they could to match the cord with their short fingers.

I remember my pastor letting me play my saxaphone with the group. I had to stuff a cloth diaper down it to muffell out the squeeks, but I learned.

The same applies to speaking as well as music. When is the last time a preacher turned over his pulpit on a Sunday Morning to some young called of God kid to encourage him along in his gifting? I thought so.

MacUser · Postby **MacUser** » June 16th, 2009, 8:18 am

paul wrote:[When is the last time a preacher turned over his pulpit on a Sunday Morning to some young called of God kid to encourage him along in his gifting? I thought so.

Ouch. They are rare indeed. Well said.

Pastor Bill · Postby **Pastor Bill** » June 16th, 2009, 8:33 am

I encourage our young people to be involved, Paul told Timothy to not let anyone despise his youth, how old was Timothy? he was set forth as pastor, do we assume he was 25-30, what we would consider a "young pastor" or was he 14-16 and could have been easily married and starting a family in that time?

at 16-17 years old one of the men of the church I grew up in asked me about coming to the men's breakfast they had a church regularly, it really touched me, and it sticks with me today, I went and had breakfast and visited with a room full of men who probably were average age about 50, but I was considered a man, and looked at as an equal. We left that church not too long after (for unrelated reasons), but that has always stuck with me, and if we would allow our young people to serve and grow, we'd be amazed at what they will bring to the local church.

As for the "mistakes" I'm not perfect yet either, so I guess I don't have much room to talk, but I know I wouldn't be as far along as I am now if it weren't for being given the opportunity to make my mistakes.

Postby **Pastor Gary** » June 16th, 2009, 12:02 pm

AMEN to all said here. Paul, great topic.

I endured some raised eyebrows 5 years ago when I turned the worship band over to a 16-year-old --- my daughter, Tori. She recruited other young musicians, they learned a lot on the job, rough at first, but better and better as they gained confidence and experience.

My Children's Pastor just told me this week she felt led to appoint "Junior Greeters" to be the first people newcomers encounter when they arrive. They will join our "First Impressions" team and, I think, be the stars!

Dr. Ron · Postby **Dr. Ron** » June 17th, 2009, 3:29 am

I started active ministry at 10. It was an interesting life to say the least...but it did mature me beyond my years....good or bad....

cndlou · Postby **cndlou** » June 17th, 2009, 10:02 am

I was VLB director of my local church (with a pretty large youth group) when I was hardly old enough to be a member, much less the leader.(I think it was because no one else would do it...

) I did all the Sunday night youth programs...I am sure they were really bad, but I learned so much in those years....and the older people were such an encouragement to me... I am very thankful for that time...

Full Quiver · Postby **Full Quiver** » June 17th, 2009, 2:53 pm

I hope I wasn't taken wrong. She just looked so young and I took it more as a 9-5 job than as a ministry per se. Sure it is a ministry but in the US a 40 hour+ week ministry for someone under 16 may be well frowned upon and thus negate the actual attempt at ministry.

Jude 2