Pastors: Casting Out Devils

[Gerald Creasy]

so what people experience has no weight at all? if it happens to ya id tend to believe it.

The Enquirer subscription base has spoken.

If someone says it happens to them it's as good as scripture.

I could fill a book of nutty psycho stuff people have told me as real (just limiting my sources as ministers).

From a group of ghost playing cards in their bedrrom, to hollowed out figurines housing demons (Home Interior provides demon homes!!!)

[dawgs10]

i said if it happens to a person they would believe it. read it agian all knowing one!

[rough_rider]

Your the one, the ONLY one throwing insults... Again, please don't talk down to me. If you really feel the need to do so, please wait till you can do it in person.

As an Osteen fan I would well imagine any challenge to you would be looked at as "talking down" after sucking up his idiotic pablum.

As for meeting......
Werent you available for a Jude 2 luncheon or dinner?
If so I have been available to you upon more than one occasion havent I?
Was it your own self worth that denied a meeting or your cowardice?

Wrong guy, I'm not an Osteen fan and the only challenge I see is your bitterness. No I was not available for the J2 get together, it would have been nice to meet everyone. As for your last question, all I can say is, you must be a lonely person inside..

[Gerald Creasy]

i said if it happens to a person they would believe it. read it agian all knowing one!

Read what you wrote again. Words mean things.

[Gerald Creasy]

Wrong guy, I'm not an Osteen fan.....

Then my apologies, I thought you were the one that called Osteens trophy wife a "sister" during the flap of her snit on an airline.

and the only challenge I see is your bitterness.

It is not bitterness to demand accountability to scripture and it is false witness to claim such instead of responding to the issue at hand.

Demons turning into cats is NOT scripture.

But by golly it'll be preached in Miss-uh-ssippi as gospel wont it???

No I was not available for the J2 get together, it would have been nice to meet everyone. As for your last question, all I can say is, you must be a lonely person inside..

Then my apologies again. Apparantly I have confused your handle with someone else who was easily available but used the slightest escuse not to be.

[pastorables]

Demons turning into cats is NOT scripture.

Gerald,

Do you have to try to discredit EVERYTHING the "old timers" experienced and/or witnessed?

Revelation 16:13-15 (Three unclean spirits like frogs come forth, one out of the mouth of the dragon, another out of the mouth of the beast, and a third out of the mouth of the false prophet. Hell, the secular power of antichrist, and the ecclesiastical power, would combine to send their several instruments, furnished with hellish malice, with worldly policy, and with religious falsehood and deceit; and these would muster up the devil's forces for a decisive battle. (2.) The means these instruments would use to engage the powers of earth in this war. They would work pretended miracles, the old stratagem of him whose coming is after the working of Satan, with all power, and signs, and lying wonders - Matthew Henry)

Gerald,

The above reference of unclean spirits coming out of the mouth is in keeping with devils that I have dealt with coming from the mouth of the possessed, etc. I compare my experiences to the Bible, regardless of what you may believe. Now, I have never witnessed spirits in the form of frogs, or cats, or bats, or snakes, nevertheless, it shouldn't be a strange thing to you that Satan has the power to mimic the God given power of transformation. Have you forgotten the Holy Spirit often transformed into a dove?

The old timers also witnessed the "blue haze" of the Holy Ghost. I suppose you discredit that phenomena as well?

pa

[paul]

Wonder if God can move outside the logos word...not in contridiction to it but outside our cannon. Or have we limited him to our interpretation and our understanding?

The first generation of Christians, apart from the Old Testament Letters did not have very much scripture to go by. They live mostly on the experience of the Spirit.

Many have marginalized the Spirit by scholorship, and frequently domesticates the Spirit and institutionalizes the Spirit. the experience of the Spirit plays less and less a crucial role in the church and many times in the life of the believer.

Granted that their has been much overacting of the Spirit in the past. But possibly we have allowed the pendilum to swing to far the other direction.

[pastorables]

Wonder if God can move outside the logos word...not in contridiction to it but outside our cannon. Or have we limited him to our interpretation and our understanding?.......


Granted that their has been much overacting of the Spirit in the past. But possibly we have allowed the pendilum to swing to far the other direction.

Excellent observation.

[Gerald Creasy]

Demons turning into cats is NOT scripture.

Gerald,

Do you have to try to discredit EVERYTHING the "old timers" experienced and/or witnessed?

Revelation 16:13-15 (Three unclean spirits like frogs come forth, one out of the mouth of the dragon, another out of the mouth of the beast, and a third out of the mouth of the false prophet. Hell, the secular power of antichrist, and the ecclesiastical power, would combine to send their several instruments, furnished with hellish malice, with worldly policy, and with religious falsehood and deceit; and these would muster up the devil's forces for a decisive battle. (2.) The means these instruments would use to engage the powers of earth in this war. They would work pretended miracles, the old stratagem of him whose coming is after the working of Satan, with all power, and signs, and lying wonders - Matthew Henry)

Gerald,

The above reference of unclean spirits coming out of the mouth is in keeping with devils that I have dealt with coming from the mouth of the possessed, etc. I compare my experiences to the Bible, regardless of what you may believe. Now, I have never witnessed spirits in the form of frogs, or cats, or bats, or snakes, nevertheless, it shouldn't be a strange thing to you that Satan has the power to mimic the God given power of transformation. Have you forgotten the Holy Spirit often transformed into a dove?

The old timers also witnessed the "blue haze" of the Holy Ghost. I suppose you discredit that phenomena as well?

pa

It is not "what I believe". You are not arguing with me, You are mitigating and changing the Bible based upon your own ignorant superstition and gullabliity.

How can you quote from a book of symbolism and use the symbolic to establish actuality?

AND JUST HOW...How are you comfortable with believeing Satan has the same Power as the Holy Ghost (and how is that different than blasphemy)?

How do you know the "blue haze" was the Holy Ghost? I have been in many buildings with many people and seen hazes in the air. Was the holy ghost always there are were there other reasons?

And to respond to Pauls point: YES God can do and does do things not told in his word. BUt the limitless power of God is NOT THE DEVIL. THE DEVIL IS LIMITED.

He is not Gods equal. In the mythology of "what mama said" His power is strengthened. But tell a Pentecostal that and they'll go to the mat defending the Power of Satan (but let God be denigrated all the DAY!!! Even as you have done using the Power of The Holy Ghost to postulate and defend the Power of Satan)

I have heard ministers tall tales of double headed demons dancing in the aisles or ministers looking into people eyes and seeing demons in them....yet my Bible does not tell me anything of the sort.

Oddly, I have also encountered several ministers who look at what regular Pentecostals look at as shouting (that type where someone dances uncontrollably) NOT as being moved by the Holy Spirit but as the Holy Spirit CAUSING the demonic influenced Person to manifest their hidden demons. AGAIN No scripture...but theres a whole school running after it.

Who's "experience" do I believe???

I have resolved to believe no one and no thing but what can be proved by the Word Of God.

You add your superstition to it and think you are Holier and more spiritual.

I think you run greedily after your own imagination (which is why you'll be defending the Next Todd Bentley and I will be pointing out how he's wrong Biblicly until he too is shown to be a drunken adulterer. And you will be wrong. AGAIN. And The Bible will be RIGHT)

[Pastor Don]

so what people experience has no weight at all? if it happens to ya id tend to believe it.

The Enquirer subscription base has spoken.

If someone says it happens to them it's as good as scripture.

I could fill a book of nutty psycho stuff people have told me as real (just limiting my sources as ministers).

From a group of ghost playing cards in their bedrrom, to hollowed out figurines housing demons (Home Interior provides demon homes!!!)

Gerald;
Please clarify for me what you are saying. This is what I am hearing you say. That any minister, preacher, ect that claims to have seen any manifestation of demonic power is a lair.

I am not entering into a debate with you on the subject at hand I guess what I am doing is a bit of a hijack. I will confess that I see in your posts in this thread a very condescending belittling of the ministry.

Not everyone that stands in the pulpit is a Todd Bently stunt double.

DJ

[scooter]

I have resolved to believe no one and no thing but what can be proved by the Word Of God.

Response: I find that completly subjective and safely flawed.

John 21:25 And there are also many other things which Jesus did, the which, if they should be written every one, I suppose that even the world itself could not contain the books that should be written.

Subjective in that, proved by the Word, holds just as many differing meanings on both the conservative and liberal sides of interpretations of scripture.

Safely flawed, the scripture itself testifies that even actions of Christ during the years of His earthly ministry were so voluminous that they could not be contained within the expressed "Word of God".


Does that delegitimize their reality?

The believers relayed through Biblical text did not have the safety of the simple written Word and were forced to exercise their faith in reality rather than with the safety net of what has been done before.

Not that I believe in two headed monkies manifesting, I'm just saying.

I would agree though that we need to distinguish what is fable and folklore from fact and that the Word is the basic rule with certain caveats.

[Dr. Ron]

Over the course of 50 years, I have been in thousands of services. I have watched casting out of devils, participated in it with others, and have( through the spirit) cast out many myself.....

I have never seen a demon "manifest" itself in any form. I have talked with them, rebuked them, cast them out, "sent the packing"....but never seen them manifest in a physical form.

I will not discount what others say....not my place to do thqat....but I do attest that they exist, can be cast out, need to be cast out, can NOT enter into some one sitting in the congregation, can not just arbitrarily go into children. None of that is scriptural.

I defend Gerald's position as to his desire that all things be done in accordance with the word. It is the only true test of reality. "Let every man be a liar, but the word remain true". I pray for Gerald that he learn some degree of gentleness, but I do recognize one who has had enough of the junk....

So, there you are folks....if you want a single experience, PA, look back at the thread Paul mentioned and you will see one, I think.

[Pastor Don]

Ron

I have no problem with being tired of the junk. We should all be. What I am taking issue with is someone who is demanding scriptural adhearane from everybody but himself. Yes we need to cry for accountability and demand it. But for a brother to belittle minister's the way.that has been done is just as wrong. To demand perfection and not be held accountable to operating in the fruit of the spirit is a bit more than just a little hypocritical. IMHO
DJ

[scooter]

"Let every man be a liar, but the word remain true". .

Response: Not that I disagree with your assessment but the Word says "God" not the word.

[Full Quiver]

Have you forgotten the Holy Spirit often transformed into a dove?

Can you back this up with Scripture?