Strange coincidence or Ordered steps?

[Billy n NC]

Even Stranger.


I think it's a SIGN. The Next Seals & Crofts Album I see at a yard sale I'm gonna get it and run the Bible Code on the Lyrics.

LOL. that was funny.

[What a Friend]

I love this quote from Spurgeon:

I believe that every particle of dust that dances in the sunbeam does not move an atom more or less than God wishes—that every particle of spray that dashes against the steamboat has its orbit as well as the sun in the heavens—that the chaff from the hand of the winnower is steered as the stars in their courses. The creeping of an aphis over the rosebud is as much fixed as the march of the devastating pestilence—the fall of sere leaves from a poplar is as fully ordained as the tumbling of an avalanche. He that believes in a God must believe this truth. There is no standing-point between this and atheism. There is no half way between a mighty God that worketh all things by the sovereign counsel of his will and no God at all. A God that cannot do as he pleases—a God whose will is frustrated, is not a God, and cannot be a God. I could not believe in such a God as that.

I loved this quote. It makes me think of the ole song "He's GOT the WHOLE world in his HANDS."

[Full Quiver]

Then God ordered Hurricane Katrina to destroy New Orleans too.

[Gerald Creasy]

Then God ordered Hurricane Katrina to destroy New Orleans too.

And?

[Tracy]

Then God ordered Hurricane Katrina to destroy New Orleans too.

Yes, He did. Storms and wind and rain obey God.

Job 37:9-14 Out of the south comes the storm...(God) disperses the cloud of His lightening. It changes direction, turning around by His guidance, that it may do whatever He commands it on the face of the inhabited earth. Whether for a rod...or for lovingkindness, He causes it to happen...Stand and consider the wonders of God!

Psalm 135:5-7 The LORD is great...Whatever the LORD pleases, He does, in heaven and in earth...He makes lightenings for the rain, and brings forth the wind from His treasuries.

Psalm 148:7 Praise the LORD from the earth, sea monsters and all deeps; fire and hail, snow and clouds; stormy wind, fulfilling His word.

He really rules the universe that He created.

[ImaPK]

I feel better now, God planned for me to be a sinner all along.

[Jennifer Smith]

I think the enemy also has power over storms, sent a storm to destroy Job's home. Not everything bad that happens is of God, the enemy's purpose and agenda is to destroy. We should not accept every bad thing that the enemy brings towards us either, but fight a battle through prayer.

And God is over all and all powerful.

We sang Indescribable on Sunday, it was absolutely beautiful:

"Who has told every lightning bolt where it should go?
Or seen heavenly storehouses laden with snow?
Who imagined the sun and gives source to its light?
Yet conceals it to bring us the coolness of night?
None can fathom

Indescribable
Uncontainable
You placed the stars in the sky and You know them by Name
You are amazing God
All powerful
Unchangeable
Awesome we fall to our knees as we humbly proclaim
You are amazing God"

Looked in the book of Job and comparable thoughts are contained near the end of Job- amazing words from God about himself!

[Gerald Creasy]

I think the enemy also has power over storms, sent a storm to destroy Job's home. Not everything bad that happens is of God, the enemy's purpose and agenda is to destroy. We should not accept every bad thing that the enemy brings towards us either, but fight a battle through prayer.

And God is over all and all powerful.

Thou speakest as one of the foolish women speaketh.

What? shall we receive good at the hand of God, and shall we not receive evil?

[Brian]

I feel better now, God planned for me to be a sinner all along.

Not saying this about you particularly, but doesn't the word say that God created one vessel for honor and another for dishonor, or something to that effect?

[Tracy]

I think the enemy also has power over storms, sent a storm to destroy Job's home.

Actually, in Job, God is the primary force behind the storm and raid and fire. Satan certainly has a hand in it--but he is a secondary cause. Notice that the Bible says that the "Fire of God" fell from heaven, (Job 1), and after the raid and wind came, Job said, "The LORD gave and the LORD has taken away." Job correctly understood that though Satan has a hand in the events, it was God ultimately who ordained them and stood behind them ultimately.

Further, you can see from the verses that I posted that winds and storms obey God and are ultimately attributed to HIM--they turn around according to His guidance that they may do whatever He commands. This is a truth about God that we learn from the Bible: winds and storms do His bidding, His purpose, He turns them. They "fulfill His Word."


"If a trumpet is blown in a city will not the people tremble? If a calamity occurs in a city has not the LORD done it?" Amos 3:6


God certainly ordains even the calamities that occur in our world. If He doesn't, then He isn't God, for someone or something else is overruling His purposes and thwarting them. But this is impossible, for Job 41 says, "For I know that you are God, and no purpose of Yours can be thwarted." And just a few verses later God says that Job has spoken of Him what is right.

Yes, even the "bad" things in our world are ordained by God, all for mysterious, holy purposes. I don't pretend to understand or to have plumbed the mysterious depths of the mind of God. What I do know is what the Bible says so clearly--that nothing happens outside of His purposes, that He rules over everything and has purposes for every, single event. He is God. There is no such thing as a Satan who frustrates His purposes, there is no such thing as human free will that frustrates His purposes, there is no such thing as chance or coincidence or cold fronts or Swine flu or cancer cells that operate one iota outside of His perfect plan and purpose and design from all eternity.

And I couldn't live otherwise. I live off of this--this amazing truth about our Amazing God.

Blessings,
Tracy

[Tracy]

I feel better now, God planned for me to be a sinner all along.

God turns away no one who comes to Him in repentance. No one. Whosoever will, may come! That is good news! All that is needed is the willingness to come Are you willing?

[Full Quiver]

Tracy, Jesus came to seek and to save that which was lost. The Word declares that no man seeks the Lord. In other words no one comes to the Father but by Jesus Christ. He has to find the lost and bring them to God. They will never go looking on their own. According to your doctrine countless souls are just lost as Mike W. pointed out. Whosoever will is an absolute but those must first be brought to the Father by the Son.

Well according to your view Job could have and maybe should have cursed God since it was He, according to you, that actually did this to Job.

I do not believe this but rather believe that God allowed it only. This does not take away from God's sovereignty, omnipresence, omniscience, power, etc. HE has a will but not everyone lives according to that. Satan is the prince of the power of the air. he does cause many things on this Earth to take place all on his own, with God's allowance of course, and us carnal beings stir up a huge mess on our owns and sometimes we ask God to straighten up our mess.

Again this doesn't take anything away from God. He still created all that is. HE can and does at times control the clouds, the winds, the storms, etc. for His specific purposes. In Genesis we find the creation story. We find a powerful truth there also. God's spoken Word causes things to take place. I understand this to mean that if God wants something all He must do is speak it. Who knows there may have been a big bang in creation, there may have been turmoil, and a cataclysmic event but nevertheless God's will was accomplished. I believe things happen by our own making and by the works of the enemy and when God gets involved HE speaks His will into the situation and cataclysmic events sometimes come of it.

Proverbs speaks of a man's ways lead to destruction but according to you they aren't man's ways but God's ordered steps. I really think your doctrine, and I suppose Sturgeon's, take away from the glory of God.

[Tracy]

Well according to your view Job could have and maybe should have cursed God since it was He, according to you, that actually did this to Job.

I do not believe this but rather believe that God allowed it only.

But the Bible says that God did it ultimately. Yes, Satan is a second cause, but the Bible recognizes God sovereignly ordaining the events.

1. The fire was God's fire from Heaven (Job 1:16) (More than allowing: His was His fire)

2. The raid and storms were from God (Job 1:21; 2:10; Job 37:9-14; Psalm 135:5-7; Psalm 148:7) (These verses show more than allowing. God took away, God sent adversity, God directs the wind, guides the wind, and causes it to happen and it does what He commands, God brings forth the wind, --this is so much more than allowing. These are actions on the part of God. He is acting, willing, purposing, directing, causing.

3. Job attributed it to God (Job 1:21; 2:10) (God didn't just allow it: It came from Him such that Job recognizes that it did)

4. God purposed it ( 42:1-2) (God purposed what happend.) This is more than allowing.

5. God did according to His will in ordaining and purposing it (Dan 4:35)

6. God ordains even the calamity and ill that happens: "Who is there who speaks and it comes to pass, unless the Lord has commanded it? Is it not from the mouth of the Most High that both good and ill go forth?" Lam 3:37-38; see also Amos 3:6 (More than allowing: God is commanding the ill that came to pass.)

7. God alone holds the keys to life and death. It is His and only His to give and take way "The LORD kills and the LORD makes alive (1 Sam 2:6) More than allowing. This is action on God's part. (See also James 4:13-16). No one dies apart from the will of God. Life belongs to Him.

8. God Himself acknowledges His hand in Job's calamity: "And he still holds fast his integrity, although you incited Me against Him to ruin him without cause." (Job 2:3) This verse shows the opposite of what you say is true--namely, God's sovereignty and activity behind Satan's.
(Again, more than allowing. Ruining is action, not passive watching.)


It may be that you do not believe God's ordaining and willing and activity in Job's calamity, but the Bible says that He did each of those things.

It is sometimes hard to get past what we would like to believe is true about God. But I have learned that I have to look hard at what the scriptures say. And the above scriptures, plus so many more, make it very clear that God does much more than allow ill and calamity. He is God, He rules, He ordains, He purposes, He causes and directs storms and sends fire and kills as well as makes alive. This is not to say there aren't second causes like Satan. But we must be careful to stay with scripture and recognize His sovereignty. The Biblical writers did not shy away from recognizing the sovereingty of God over Satan and calamity; neither should we.

Blessings,
Tracy

[Brian]

I agree Tracy, too many people have a hard time seeing God as the cause of some of our calamity. It isn't about blaming God for all the bad that happens, it's about recognizing the sheer superemacy of our God who is over ALL THINGS both good or ill.

I have come to see over these last 17 years that it was God's divine will for my son Branden to be in that horrific car accident. It was because of that that our family came to Christ. And not only ours but my parents, my brothers family and probably more than I am aware! Satan could not have done that, not even by accident.

I admit that it's hard sometimes to understand. I know that the word says that it is not Gods will that any should perish. Some do. Does that mean God isn't in control? NO!

A wise old timer use to giggle and laugh in church about how sneeking and sly Satan thought he was. He said that the devil is so blinded by his own pride that he doesn't see that he is actually working for God and doing His will! He is a tool, a puppet to Gods own will.

[Brian]

I am surprised by some of you. Someone asked if it was Gods will for 911? Of course it was! Or do you suppose God was out to lunch when the planes were headed to the buildings? Do you suppose He just took a sideline view of the big bad devil? That He couldn't step in if He chose? Well if He COULD have stepped in but DIDN'T then what does that tell you?

And as far as God willing someone to be a sinner.... last time I checked we were ALL born sinners, not just you ImaPK. LOL