WOF doctrine may have sparked BAD Economy

[Gerald Creasy]

Has the so-called Prosperity gospel turned its followers into some of the most willing participants — and hence, victims — of the current financial crisis? That's what a scholar of the fast-growing brand of Pentecostal Christianity believes. While researching a book on black televangelism, says Jonathan Walton, a religion professor at the University of California at Riverside, he realized that Prosperity's central promise — that God will "make a way" for poor people to enjoy the better things in life — had developed an additional, dangerous expression during the subprime-lending boom. Walton says that this encouraged congregants who got dicey mortgages to believe "God caused the bank to ignore my credit score and blessed me with my first house." The results, he says, "were disastrous, because they pretty much turned parishioners into prey for greedy brokers."


http://www.time.com/time/business/artic ... 53,00.html

[free]

Might as well blame the Christians for the bad economy also!

[paul]

Has the so-called Prosperity gospel turned its followers into some of the most willing participants — and hence, victims — of the current financial crisis? That's what a scholar of the fast-growing brand of Pentecostal Christianity believes. While researching a book on black televangelism, says Jonathan Walton, a religion professor at the University of California at Riverside, he realized that Prosperity's central promise — that God will "make a way" for poor people to enjoy the better things in life — had developed an additional, dangerous expression during the subprime-lending boom. Walton says that this encouraged congregants who got dicey mortgages to believe "God caused the bank to ignore my credit score and blessed me with my first house." The results, he says, "were disastrous, because they pretty much turned parishioners into prey for greedy brokers."

http://www.time.com/time/business/artic ... 53,00.html

From the same article

Other experts, like Walton, note that for all its faults, the theology can empower people who have been taught to see themselves as financially or even culturally useless to feel they are "worthy of having more and doing more and being more." In some cases the philosophy has matured with its practitioners, encouraging good financial habits and entrepreneurship.

But Walton suggests that a decade's worth of ever easier credit acted like a drug in Prosperity's bloodstream. "The economic boom '90s and financial overextensions of the new millennium contributed to the success of the Prosperity message," he wrote recently on his personal blog as well as on the website Religion Dispatches. And not positively.

Gerald Your statement that the WOF doctrine may have sparked Bad economy is out of proportion with the article. If anything it implies that many in the movement may have become victims from easy credit and some misleading pastors.

I guess Global warming, Obama as president, the middle east crisis, the rise of China as a Power, and every other situation in the world can be blames on KC<BH< KH< CD< JD<JS and a few others.

[Gerald Creasy]

Gerald Your statement that the WOF doctrine may have sparked Bad economy is out of proportion with the article. If anything it implies that many in the movement may have become victims from easy credit and some misleading pastors.

I guess Global warming, Obama as president, the middle east crisis, the rise of China as a Power, and every other situation in the world can be blames on KC<BH< KH< CD< JD<JS and a few others.

Absolutely not.

The article says that the WOF people played into the subprime lending.

It was the failure of sub prime lending (due to lending to such people) which destabilized the banks which caused the credit crunch which caused the bad economy.

WOF will have it's own section of hell; you need to make up your mind whether you want to be a big fish in that lake of fire.

[paul]

Gerald Your statement that the WOF doctrine may have sparked Bad economy is out of proportion with the article. If anything it implies that many in the movement may have become victims from easy credit and some misleading pastors.

I guess Global warming, Obama as president, the middle east crisis, the rise of China as a Power, and every other situation in the world can be blames on KC<BH< KH< CD< JD<JS and a few others.

Absolutely not.

The article says that the WOF people played into the subprime lending.It was the failure of sub prime lending (due to lending to such people) which destabilized the banks which caused the credit crunch which caused the bad economy.

WOF will have it's own section of hell; you need to make up your mind whether you want to be a big fish in that lake of fire.

As did millions of non-believers, baptist, methodist,catholic,JW, Mormons and every other group out there. To single out any one particular group that might have "SPARKED" this crisis is irresponsible, I don't care if they have all types of degrees behind their name or not.

As far as your last remark. You have made it clear on many occasions that you feel that I am going to hell, am not saved, preach heresy and the like. I just think you are angry because I won't just go away like so many others have after your character bashing. Oh to think that Gerald is, as we all are, fallable, and wrong in so many situations.

But through it all you are my brother in CHRIST. and I do wish above all things that you be in health (especially your back) and that you prosper
(find that right job that will give you the funds you need) even as your soul prospers.

[Gerald Creasy]

As did millions of non-believers, baptist, methodist,catholic,JW, Mormons and every other group out there. To single out any one particular group that might have "SPARKED" this crisis is irresponsible, I don't care if they have all types of degrees behind their name or not.

As far as your last remark. You have made it clear on many occasions that you feel that I am going to hell, am not saved, preach heresy and the like. I just think you are angry because I won't just go away like so many others have after your character bashing. Oh to think that Gerald is, as we all are, fallable, and wrong in so many situations.

But through it all you are my brother in CHRIST. and I do wish above all things that you be in health (especially your back) and that you prosper
(find that right job that will give you the funds you need) even as your soul prospers.

The WOF doctrine preaches a different Christ than the one found in scriptures. You have sold all for that scriptureless WOF copy.

It is not the real Christ.

You have deluded yourself; and give lipservice to the idol of your own fleshly tounge.

[Pastor Gary]

The WOF doctrine preaches a different Christ than the one found in scriptures. You have sold all for that scriptureless WOF copy.

It is not the real Christ.

You have deluded yourself; and give lipservice to the idol of your own fleshly tounge.

Gerald, you are simply wrong about Paul. I understand that you have determined that WOF doctrine is flawed, but to dismiss everyone who does not dismiss it as vehemently as you as a hell-bound heretic is just... wrong.

By that logic the most excellent teaching and Theological writing of Henri Nouwen would be rejected outright because he was Roman Catholic, and you know those Catholics... they pray to saints and claim Mary was co-redemptress.

[Gerald Creasy]

Gerald, you are simply wrong about Paul. I understand that you have determined that WOF doctrine is flawed, but to dismiss everyone who does not dismiss it as vehemently as you as a hell-bound heretic is just... wrong.

By that logic the most excellent teaching and Theological writing of Henri Nouwen would be rejected outright because he was Roman Catholic, and you know those Catholics... they pray to saints and claim Mary was co-redemptress.

I realize you and Paul are buddies.

I realize that because I will not sit still that no one will take anything I say seriously.

Therefore I realize nothing I say will be able to get my point across.

However, when Paul said that he would NOT stop someone from preaching "Jesus was not God" because someones faith would be destroyed, it told me much more than having dinner at a sushi bar ever could.

When he said a man who would put a stop to such preaching was "full of pride" it showed me an idiocy that was beyond description.

How can such a "man of God" care so little for the very nature of Christ?
How can such a "man of God" buddy up under the ministry of a man who PROFANES Christ?


When I have attempted to engage him civilly I have received nothing but pompous superiority and demeaning condescension (those old COGOP state Overseer qualifications). This man who continually trumpets how great a spiritual giant he is, and hasnt even got a clue of the Blasphemy he embraces.

Repeatatively he has used scripture to condemn and discipline, yet he seems incabable and even entirely clueless about how to do that to his own "false Jesus".

[paul]

Gerald....

My prayer is that when we all get to heaven, your mansion will be across the street from mine. That way for all eternity when you look out your window and see me you will be reminded of how wrong you were.

BTW: You are still my brother in Christ and I still love you. Praying God's best for you.

[Pastor Gary]

I realize you and Paul are buddies.

This has nothing to do with friendship. It has to do with Christian praxis.

Repeatatively he has used scripture to condemn and discipline, yet he seems incabable and even entirely clueless about how to do that to his own "false Jesus".

I just took communion in a room full of diverse people; some have what I consider seriously flawed Theology. SERIOUSLY flawed... and yet the scriptures are pretty clear that the true test of discipleship is not the accuracy of one's Christology, but one's love for other disciples.

We should all give that a try.

[paul]

btw: Pastor PG are you still coming to Pasadena ? if so when ? would love to touch base with you, if nothing else at least for a lunch or dinner. We really enjoyed our time with Bonnie when she was here, short as it was.

[Gerald Creasy]

I just took communion in a room full of diverse people; some have what I consider seriously flawed Theology. SERIOUSLY flawed... and yet the scriptures are pretty clear that the true test of discipleship is not the accuracy of one's Christology, but one's love for other disciples.

We should all give that a try.

Well I guess we should just cut out all those scriptures about false Christs then shouldnt we?

Just chuck the real Jesus over the cliffs of Malibu while we hold hands and sing Kum Ba Yah while we achieve Cum Laude.


Then Lets holds hold a rap session. Everybody will share who Jesus is. The Mormon can tell of Jesus Satans spiritual brother. The WOF people can tell how he surrendered all just so we can boss him around. The Moslem can tell us he was a Prophet and not God...some of the Black Pentecostals can do the same.
And we'll all be right cause we have a warm fuzzy feeling about being nice to each other.

[Pastor Gary]

I just took communion in a room full of diverse people; some have what I consider seriously flawed Theology. SERIOUSLY flawed... and yet the scriptures are pretty clear that the true test of discipleship is not the accuracy of one's Christology, but one's love for other disciples.

We should all give that a try.

Well I guess we should just cut out all those scriptures about false Christs then shouldnt we?

Just chuck the real Jesus over the cliffs of Malibu while we hold hands and sing Kum Ba Yah while we achieve Cum Laude.


Then Lets holds hold a rap session. Everybody will share who Jesus is. The Mormon can tell of Jesus Satans spiritual brother. The WOF people can tell how he surrendered all just so we can boss him around. The Moslem can tell us he was a Prophet and not God...some of the Black Pentecostals can do the same.
And we'll all be right cause we have a warm fuzzy feeling about being nice to each other.

Okay. Have it your way. You are right, Gerald. Everyone else is stupid.

You may have thought you left the old COGOP exclusivist mindset of the past, but you have merely replaced it with another flavor of the same kool-aid.

[Gerald Creasy]

It is not exclusivist to demand that Christ is ONLY what is in scriptures and not the blasphemous things people mutate him into.

If what you say is true why did the early church fight gnosticism? and warn of false christs?? I guess they just had an exclusive view of what Christ was.

Why even bother to preach about him at all if he can be anything?

I am sorry to see you have sold out, Gary.

[Pastor Gary]

I am sorry to see you have sold out, Gary.

I am sorry your arrogance and ignorance have reached new heights if you think love is selling out.