What I believe

[paul]

According to the “great commission” found in Matt. 28:18-20, an important part of being a Christian in the early church was teaching others and baptizing them in the name of the Triune God. A concise summery of the Christian Faith would help in both these task. In the table below, compare the version of the Apostles’ Creed we have from AD 336 with the baptismal formula Hippolytus of Rome used with new converts by the year AD 215

Hippolytus of Rome AD 215
I believe in God the Father Almighty,
And in Christ Jesus, the Son of God, who was born of the Holy Spirit and the Virgin Mary, and was crucified under Pontius Pilot, and was dead and buried, and rose again the third day, alsive from the dead, and ascended into heaven, and sat down at the right hand of the Father and will come again to judge the living and the dead. I believe in the Holy spirit, in the Holy church, and in the resurrection of the body.

Apostles’ Creed AD 140-390
I believe in God, the Father almighty
And in Jesus Christ, his only Son our Lord, who was born by the Holy Spirit of the virgin Mary, was crucified under Pontius Pilate, and was buried. The third day He rose from the dead, He ascended into heaven; and now sits on the right hand of the Father from there he shall come to judge the living and the dead. I believe in the Holy Spirit, the holy church, the forgiveness of sins and the resurrection of the body.

As new converts were being baptized, Hippolytus would ask them, “ Do you believe in God?” they would answer “ I believe in God, the Father Almighty…” Do you believe in Jesus Christ? And they would answer “ I believe in Jesus Christ, the Son of God….” Working their way through the entire formula.

The roots of the creed are found in the declaration of faith made by converts at the time of their baptism. A key point was that Christians were doing this before the New Testament was finalized.
By the year AD 64, Christians were often being persecuted for their faith. Converting from paganism to Christianity could cost a person their life. So it really mattered whether you were in or out, whether you called yourself a Christian or not. What set of beliefs made one a Christian ? Which set of beliefs were worth dying for ? What was the heart of the Christian message they refused to deny? One clue is found in what new converts said at their baptism. That was the time when they publicly declared their faith in and loyalty to Jesus. It became their creed.
Why was it important to memorize it? Tertullian (AD 200) say that the memorization of the creed or “Rule of Faith” acted as a symbol or password that allowed Christians to recognize each other in a dangerous world.

It is called the Apostles' creed, not because the Apostles' wrote it, but rather because the early church viewed it as an accurate summary of the apostles' teaching. These teachings are what I believe, what I confess, what I live by, what I preach, and what I am willing to die for. It is what I believe is the heart of Christianity. We may differ on many other areas of theology, but if we can meet here then we can (IMHO) walk hand in hand and have a impact on the world in which we live, all for the Glory of God.

[Gerald Creasy]

Do you believe you can make God do things for you by commanding him with your carnal tounge?

Since the Encyclopedia of Pentecostalsims defines the writing of E W Kenyon as a Christianized witchcraft, why exactly do you consider anything he wrote spiritually significant?

Do you believe God is a man?

Do you believe the deity of Jesus Christ is something that can be done away with if by doing so "faith" can increase?

Do you believe God is subserviant to the force of faith?

Do you believe you are so spiritually superior that you dont have to answer questions from peons? (well Yes...yes you do because I have been asking these questions of you without response for over a year).

[beckrl]

According to the “great commission” found in Matt. 28:18-20, an important part of being a Christian in the early church was teaching others and baptizing them in the name of the Triune God. A concise summery of the Christian Faith would help in both these task. In the table below, compare the version of the Apostles’ Creed we have from AD 336 with the baptismal formula Hippolytus of Rome used with new converts by the year AD 215

Hippolytus of Rome AD 215
I believe in God the Father Almighty,
And in Christ Jesus, the Son of God, who was born of the Holy Spirit and the Virgin Mary, and was crucified under Pontius Pilot, and was dead and buried, and rose again the third day, alsive from the dead, and ascended into heaven, and sat down at the right hand of the Father and will come again to judge the living and the dead. I believe in the Holy spirit, in the Holy church, and in the resurrection of the body.

Apostles’ Creed AD 140-390
I believe in God, the Father almighty
And in Jesus Christ, his only Son our Lord, who was born by the Holy Spirit of the virgin Mary, was crucified under Pontius Pilate, and was buried. The third day He rose from the dead, He ascended into heaven; and now sits on the right hand of the Father from there he shall come to judge the living and the dead. I believe in the Holy Spirit, the holy church, the forgiveness of sins and the resurrection of the body.

As new converts were being baptized, Hippolytus would ask them, “ Do you believe in God?” they would answer “ I believe in God, the Father Almighty…” Do you believe in Jesus Christ? And they would answer “ I believe in Jesus Christ, the Son of God….” Working their way through the entire formula.

The roots of the creed are found in the declaration of faith made by converts at the time of their baptism. A key point was that Christians were doing this before the New Testament was finalized.
By the year AD 64, Christians were often being persecuted for their faith. Converting from paganism to Christianity could cost a person their life. So it really mattered whether you were in or out, whether you called yourself a Christian or not. What set of beliefs made one a Christian ? Which set of beliefs were worth dying for ? What was the heart of the Christian message they refused to deny? One clue is found in what new converts said at their baptism. That was the time when they publicly declared their faith in and loyalty to Jesus. It became their creed.
Why was it important to memorize it? Tertullian (AD 200) say that the memorization of the creed or “Rule of Faith” acted as a symbol or password that allowed Christians to recognize each other in a dangerous world.

It is called the Apostles' creed, not because the Apostles' wrote it, but rather because the early church viewed it as an accurate summary of the apostles' teaching. These teachings are what I believe, what I confess, what I live by, what I preach, and what I am willing to die for. It is what I believe is the heart of Christianity. We may differ on many other areas of theology, but if we can meet here then we can (IMHO) walk hand in hand and have a impact on the world in which we live, all for the Glory of God.

This in history of early christains at thier baptizing made public in an dangerous time, really shows through what an impact that must had.

We differ in theology, but some isn't theology but heresy.

[paul]

beckrl said

This in history of early christains at thier baptizing made public in an dangerous time, really shows through what an impact that must had.

We differ in theology, but some isn't theology but heresy.

Should we not be willing to make the same confession today? If one cannot read this creed and realize that it encompasses the basis of all true christian doctrine, then one is not really reading it for all it says.

The heart of Christianity is confined herein. The heart of Christianity is not healing, is not prosperity, is not exclusiviness, nor is it end time prophecy, although these are a part of the christian experience. I doubt that the early christians were quizzed concerning the pre-mid-post return of the Lord. They did confess that He was returning. I doubt that the early christians understood the incarnate Christ completely. Did he leave all his diety to come to earth, did he leave a portion, did he move on earth as totally divine or totally human or a part thereof or both (Philippians 2). What they knew was that he came and suffered, died, rose and would come again.

Also please understand that thousands today still face persecution and death for converting, they still publicly make this confession and live and die by it. This is not some arcatic script.

I did not post this to be a shouting match for Gerald. That is being done in another thread.

For him no answer will be the correct answer unless it adheres to his own interpretation of scripture.

[Gerald Creasy]

I did not post this to be a shouting match for Gerald. That is being done in another thread.

For him no answer will be the correct answer unless it adheres to his own interpretation of scripture.

Again you resort to falsehood to cover your own Disingenuousness.

They are simple questions you have refused to answer for over a year.

Your pomposity is not an answer Paul.

[paul]

Gerald

If you really want to understand my view of Christ then you might research and read the following along with the scriptures

Jesus Christ our Lord by John F. Walvoor
Moody Press
Chicago, Ill.
Copyright 1969

Also you might read and study the writtings of Gordon Fee & Douglas Stuart
Zondervan
Philippians, The Spirit,

Also if you want to understand my theology read " Pauline Christology an Exegetical-Theological Study" by Fee
Hendrickson Publisher

My view on Prosperity can be found through out the scriptures , but you might pay attention to 2 Cor 9, Mark 4, Matt6:19-33 and Malachi 3 these are just a few.

You might want to read a book by Kenneth Haggin called " The Midus Touch"

After you are done come back and we will talk.

[Gerald Creasy]

It is not incumbent upon me to study your sources when with your own two fingers you can peck out an answer.

Having attempted discussion -even civil discussion- on several occasions and always having run ito that whited wall of your greatness, I'm sure if I actually did read those sources and came to you with questions I'd receive the same response.

Why will you just not answer a simple question?

If it gives you so much joy, causes you to continually crow about your magnificent feats of spirituality and is true, why do you fear a simple discourse?

If it is what you believe can you not defend it? Or is it that you're just so fantastic a superchristian you dont have to defend what you believe?

Does not the appeal to Kenyon and his plagarist Haggin tell me everything I need to know anyway?

Kenyon, Haggin his disciple and Copeland the fool apparant have done nothing but infuse Christianity with their own brand of witchcraft, made popular by greedy self centered followers.



Do you believe you can make God do things for you by commanding him with your carnal tounge?

Since the Encyclopedia of Pentecostalsims defines the writing of E W Kenyon as a Christianized witchcraft, why exactly do you consider anything he wrote spiritually significant?

Do you believe God is a man?

Do you believe the deity of Jesus Christ is something that can be done away with if by doing so "faith" can increase?

Do you believe God is subserviant to the force of faith?

[Full Quiver]

Do you believe God is subservient to the force of faith?

I'd like to say that faith is nothing more than a real belief that God IS. Anything more is not faith but heresy, witchcraft, etc.

[Gerald Creasy]

Do you believe God is subservient to the force of faith?

I'd like to say that faith is nothing more than a real belief that God IS. Anything more is not faith but heresy, witchcraft, etc.

Careful FQ, you'll be called arrogant if you stand against the mega-disciple, even Pastor Gary has become carried away with dissimulation.

[Pastor Gary]

Do you believe God is subservient to the force of faith?

I'd like to say that faith is nothing more than a real belief that God IS. Anything more is not faith but heresy, witchcraft, etc.

Careful FQ, you'll be called arrogant if you stand against the mega-disciple, even Pastor Gary has become carried away with dissimulation.

Gerald - you have just officially told a lie about me. Careful.

[paul]

It is not incumbent upon me to study your sources when with your own two fingers you can peck out an answer.

Having attempted discussion -even civil discussion- on several occasions and always having run ito that whited wall of your greatness, I'm sure if I actually did read those sources and came to you with questions I'd receive the same response.

Why will you just not answer a simple question?

If it gives you so much joy, causes you to continually crow about your magnificent feats of spirituality and is true, why do you fear a simple discourse?

If it is what you believe can you not defend it? Or is it that you're just so fantastic a superchristian you dont have to defend what you believe?

Does not the appeal to Kenyon and his plagarist Haggin tell me everything I need to know anyway?

Kenyon, Haggin his disciple and Copeland the fool apparant have done nothing but infuse Christianity with their own brand of witchcraft, made popular by greedy self centered followers.



Do you believe you can make God do things for you by commanding him with your carnal tounge?

Since the Encyclopedia of Pentecostalsims defines the writing of E W Kenyon as a Christianized witchcraft, why exactly do you consider anything he wrote spiritually significant?

Do you believe God is a man?

Do you believe the deity of Jesus Christ is something that can be done away with if by doing so "faith" can increase?

Do you believe God is subserviant to the force of faith?

Gerald said:

Having attempted discussion -even civil discussion- on several occasions and always having run ito that whited wall of your greatness, I'm sure if I actually did read those sources and came to you with questions I'd receive the same response.

Gerald, I can read your post over the past few years and even the past few weeks and days and realize that you are completely incapable of holding a civil discussion (IMO). Other may see you as a defender of the faith, personally I see you only as a defender of Geralds doctrine.

continually crow about your magnificent feats of spirituality and is true, why do you fear a simple discourse?

Gerald I read post about peoples cows, chickens, I read scooters report of the increase in his church attendance and what God is doing for them, I read about people's children, about a varity of things. I am a missionary and I share what God is doing on the mission fields, how God has blessed our organization with growth, which is not unlike what many pastors post here.

I have listen to you damn your own heritage and its leaders as Cult leaders, mock and almost rejoice when a christian leader falls, pass judgement on an entire movement (pentecostal) set other groups who do not hold your view of the trinity as lost and doomed.

You remind me of Ham, who revelled in the nakedness and drunkeness of his father Noah. You revell in what you see as the faults and shortcoming and errors of other idividuals and organizations. But remember Ham was cursed because of his attitude.

[justsam]

Pro 26:4 Answer not a fool according to his folly, lest thou also be like unto him.

[Pastorbps]

Paul:
You say this is what you believe. I do too! But...What if someone claims to be a Christian and doesn't believe one or more of these things? Are they a Christian? What if they don't believe in the virgin birth? (There are a lot of "Theologians" who don't) Are they a Christian? What if a church officially espouses the idea Jesus was not born of the Virgin Mary? Is that church a Christian organization or pseudo-Christian? Can we say so or are we judging to say they are wrong? What about scripture? Do you have to believe in the infallibility of scripture? How do we know Jesus was the Son of God, born of the Virgin Mary, is set to judge the living and the dead?
The Gospel is information. How do we know that information is correct if we don't believe the Bible is completely accurate?

What if I say I believe all those things but I believe its alright to live sinfully? Am I okay because I say I believe the apostle's creed?

Does behavior give evidence of one's standing with God or should we even be concerned with one's conduct as long as they profess a belief in the creeds you mentioned?

Historically, the creeds were not meant to be "Statements of Faith" but to give a minimum requirement of beliefs in order to combat heresy. "You have to at least believe this." I personally believe Christianity is being forced by false prophets and teachers to make sure people at least believe certain things. My question has been - What should be on that list? And don't say there shouldn't be a list because we all know there are certain things a person must believe in order to be a Christian? What are they? What must a person believe in order to be a Christian?

[Gerald Creasy]

Pro 26:4 Answer not a fool according to his folly, lest thou also be like unto him.

Pro 26:5 Answer a fool according to his folly, lest he be wise in his own conceit.

Thou art answered.

[Gerald Creasy]

It is not incumbent upon me to study your sources when with your own two fingers you can peck out an answer.

Having attempted discussion -even civil discussion- on several occasions and always having run ito that whited wall of your greatness, I'm sure if I actually did read those sources and came to you with questions I'd receive the same response.

Why will you just not answer a simple question?

If it gives you so much joy, causes you to continually crow about your magnificent feats of spirituality and is true, why do you fear a simple discourse?

If it is what you believe can you not defend it? Or is it that you're just so fantastic a superchristian you dont have to defend what you believe?

Does not the appeal to Kenyon and his plagarist Haggin tell me everything I need to know anyway?

Kenyon, Haggin his disciple and Copeland the fool apparant have done nothing but infuse Christianity with their own brand of witchcraft, made popular by greedy self centered followers.



Do you believe you can make God do things for you by commanding him with your carnal tounge?

Since the Encyclopedia of Pentecostalsims defines the writing of E W Kenyon as a Christianized witchcraft, why exactly do you consider anything he wrote spiritually significant?

Do you believe God is a man?

Do you believe the deity of Jesus Christ is something that can be done away with if by doing so "faith" can increase?

Do you believe God is subserviant to the force of faith?

Gerald said:

Having attempted discussion -even civil discussion- on several occasions and always having run ito that whited wall of your greatness, I'm sure if I actually did read those sources and came to you with questions I'd receive the same response.

Gerald, I can read your post over the past few years and even the past few weeks and days and realize that you are completely incapable of holding a civil discussion (IMO). Other may see you as a defender of the faith, personally I see you only as a defender of Geralds doctrine.

continually crow about your magnificent feats of spirituality and is true, why do you fear a simple discourse?

Gerald I read post about peoples cows, chickens, I read scooters report of the increase in his church attendance and what God is doing for them, I read about people's children, about a varity of things. I am a missionary and I share what God is doing on the mission fields, how God has blessed our organization with growth, which is not unlike what many pastors post here.

I have listen to you damn your own heritage and its leaders as Cult leaders, mock and almost rejoice when a christian leader falls, pass judgement on an entire movement (pentecostal) set other groups who do not hold your view of the trinity as lost and doomed.

You remind me of Ham, who revelled in the nakedness and drunkeness of his father Noah. You revell in what you see as the faults and shortcoming and errors of other idividuals and organizations. But remember Ham was cursed because of his attitude.

Because you stand on the corner and blow a trumpet about how great feats for God you perform, and I keep quiet about any move God does in this corner does NOT make you untouchable.

From the moment you arrived on Jude 2 You have NEVER attempted to engage in conversation that did not REQUIRE me to kiss your hind end in order to have discourse.

You have attempted lies, pomposity and obfuscation to avoid answering the most simple question.