Beach Day at Church

[Sherry]

How in heavens name did this go from someone in a bathing suit, who is covered by the way, to nudists?????????

[TW]

Some of you are zeroing in on the one young lady in the black two piece bathing suit as being the immodest one. Lets take a closer look, and analyze the image in more depth.



Point #1. There are four young women in this picture.
Point #2. Of the four, one is wearing a two piece bathing suit, a bikini by some of your standards. Two are wearing some sort of bathing suit (one piece or two cannot be determined from the photo) but have wrapped themselves in towels or wraps, and one is in shorts and a T-shirt.
Point #3. I doubt that the two wrapped in towels wore those towels into the water to be baptized in, that would render them ineffective for drying off.
Point #4. The one lady in the shorts and T-shirt may, or may not have worn them for baptism. However they do not appear to be wet as you would expect from immersion in the ocean. So I would draw the conclusion that she to wore some sort of bathing suit.

It seems pretty obvious to me that bathing suits for the women were the rule not the exception. What is truly disturbing about this picture is (extreme sarcasm here) that the man behind the woman in the shorts and T-shirt is touching her.


TW

[Shepherd]

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[Shepherd]

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[Pastor Gary]

How in heavens name did this go from someone in a bathing suit, who is covered by the way, to nudists?????????

Compare this to what our Holiness grandparents considered to be modest. Would it really be more of a giant step if many of our grandchildren were to be so-called "Christian nudists"?

How far back do you want to take that argument? I am 3rd generation, and my grandmother was part of the holiness movement when drinking Coca-Cola, wearing neckties, serving in the military, watching television, going to a sporting event, and a list of other things were either forbidden completely or very much considered shameful. I have done every one of the things I mentioned, and so have you, it is likely, yet I don't hear any cries of "letting down the standard" over neckties and Coke.

[Sherry]

How in heavens name did this go from someone in a bathing suit, who is covered by the way, to nudists?????????

Compare this to what our Holiness grandparents considered to be modest. Would it really be more of a giant step if many of our grandchildren were to be so-called "Christian nudists"?

My grandparents who I love and respect greatly, have healthy views. They didn't cringe or condemn if they saw their granddaughters in a two-piece bathing suit or shorts. All the granddaughter's are now in their 30's and 40's with their own children. Believe it or not, all with great self esteem about themselves and their bodies, whether perfect or not.

And btw, my grandfather is 3rd generation COGOP.

[Shepherd]

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[Shepherd]

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[dolfan]

Again, I ask, "If the woman in the bikini, is not dressed immodestly, what would you consider to be immodest?" That is not a rhetorical question. I would like to hear an answer. Remember we must agree with Paul's appeal for modesty. So, what short of nudity, is immodest?

You don't get to assert something and then demand proof of its opposite as support for your position. You are moving the onus of supporting your view onto your 'opponents' that way. First support your contention that it was immodest. Appeals to older traditions on propriety are not persuasive. At least holding that it is self-evident is something. I disagree. But that's alittle better than just repeatibg that it is immodest.

[Ilovebigcats]

Some of you are zeroing in on the one young lady in the black two piece bathing suit as being the immodest one. Lets take a closer look, and analyze the image in more depth.



Point #1. There are four young women in this picture.
Point #2. Of the four, one is wearing a two piece bathing suit, a bikini by some of your standards. Two are wearing some sort of bathing suit (one piece or two cannot be determined from the photo) but have wrapped themselves in towels or wraps, and one is in shorts and a T-shirt.
Point #3. I doubt that the two wrapped in towels wore those towels into the water to be baptized in, that would render them ineffective for drying off.
Point #4. The one lady in the shorts and T-shirt may, or may not have worn them for baptism. However they do not appear to be wet as you would expect from immersion in the ocean. So I would draw the conclusion that she to wore some sort of bathing suit.

It seems pretty obvious to me that bathing suits for the women were the rule not the exception. What is truly disturbing about this picture is (extreme sarcasm here) that the man behind the woman in the shorts and T-shirt is touching her.


TW

You forgot all the kids that should have shame too! The one in the bikini is TOUCHING the half naked boy!! *GASP*

BTW.. there are 5 women.

[CantBCoy]

Sorry that I came into this discussion so late. I read the initial post when it had 2 response and thought nothing more of it. And honestly had no clue there was any discussion about it until I read Poimen's post stating he was retiring from the discussion. Even then, this thread wasn't my first option in trying to find the discussion. I admittedly haven't taken the time to read the entire thread, but enough of it to understand the debate. If I repeat any point that's already been made, please excuse me.

That being said, some things to think about.

Modesty –noun, plural -ties.

1. the quality of being modest; freedom from vanity, boastfulness, etc.
2. regard for decency of behavior, speech, dress, etc.
3. simplicity; moderation.

The first line for modesty in Wikipedia is the following:

Standards of modesty (also called demureness or reticence) are aspects of the culture of a country or people, at a given point in time, and is a measure against which an individual in society may be judged. Though the term can be applied to both men and women, and boys and girls, it is most commonly applied to women and girls.

I haven't read ALL of the replies, but I'm assuming the only real fuss is over the 2 piece worn by the young lady. I know that in a discussion that seems to be dominated by men the point may not be made. So let me make it. If indeed a person is concerned about the lust too much skin can cause, consider this. The chest and torso of a man can be just as alluring to a woman. *The point was probably already made, but here it is again.

When discussing dress, I don't believe that anyone would argue the standard for what would have been considered a breach of modesty 2000 years ago in Jerusalem was much higher. Higher, of course, meaning the least amount of skin possible. I'm also sure these standards, for the most part, were geared toward the women and not the men. i.e. I doubt that while working manual labor jobs in the desert the men wore their robes all day long. "I doubt Jesus even did that." In fact, I would dare say a woman, besides his mother and sisters, at some point and time even saw the chest of an adult Jesus. Let's face it guys, when it comes to this there will always be greater restrictions on the women. But if we really wanted our women to dress as they did in scripture and in a way that Paul would have found appropriate, then radical Islam, is closer to the truth on this subject than we are.

Consider again this line:

Standards of modesty (also called demureness or reticence) are aspects of the culture of a country or people, at a given point in time....

What of the countless number of people, men and women, in "less developed" nations, both now and in history, that basically function within their own society while nude? (Or what would be considered nude in our culture.) We've all seen the Nat Geo magazines and documentaries on these people. Some, I suppose, are nude or semi-nude by choice. Others, from what I can gather, don't or didn't have the understanding of how to make proper clothing or perhaps lacked access to the materials to make them. If that is the case, are these people being immodest or vulgar?

At this very moment in our culture the bathing suit this young lady is wearing IS modest. Have you guys been to the beach lately?

Modesty –noun, plural -ties.

3. simplicity; moderation.

What she is wearing is plain and simple and very much like something the other 2000+ girls had on at the beach that day. Not only that, have you seen the horrendously designed one pieces lately?

I say let's give this young lady a bit of a break. Am I truly teaching her modesty by touting my own personal righteousness? Or have I forgotten that my righteousness is as filthy rags and that the Lord looks upon the heart.

Modesty –noun, plural -ties.

1. the quality of being modest; freedom from vanity, boastfulness, etc.

I'll end my little chat here with the following. What a "WONDERFUL" way of publicly acknowledging a decision to follow Christ. Instead of being in some cramped up little baptismal or on the banks of some secluded section of a river or creek, these people are at the beach. If I wouldn't get in trouble for gambling, I'd bet that one day before too long a great revival could break out on the seaside during a service much like this one.

A person could write a book on this and never finish it. So I'll finish for now. I do have to finish by pointing out, one more time, that I really thought so little of the picture posted that it was my last resort to find the modesty thread.

Hmmmmmm

[TW]

Sorry Cats, with that short hair, and mixed in among the men, I missed her. You know that we men are not allowed to look at a woman from the neck down, until we reach the ankles. Heads and feet, that's all we are allowed to look at.


TW

[Shepherd]

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[paul]

Again, I ask, "If the woman in the bikini, is not dressed immodestly, what would you consider to be immodest?" That is not a rhetorical question. I would like to hear an answer. Remember we must agree with Paul's appeal for modesty. So, what short of nudity, is immodest?

To bad Paul did not have a digital cam to take a photo and post it with his words.

Is she dressed inmodestly ? Im my oponion, for the occasion No, and I would not have a second thought of baptizing her. As far as the photo is concerned. For all I know the man touching the woman could be her husbans abd the lady in the bikini could be placing her hand on her son's head.

I have come across many in my time even in the counceling office that was fully clothed, yet were so immodest in their actions and spirit that I would refuse to counsel them.

[Shepherd]

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