The elephant in the room

[MacUser]

Revelation 3
14. "To the angel of the church in Laodicea write: These are the words of the Amen, the faithful and true witness, the ruler of God's creation. 15. I know your deeds, that you are neither cold nor hot. I wish you were either one or the other! 16. So, because you are lukewarm—neither hot nor cold—I am about to spit you out of my mouth. 17. You say, 'I am rich; I have acquired wealth and do not need a thing.' But you do not realize that you are wretched, pitiful, poor, blind and naked. 18. I counsel you to buy from me gold refined in the fire, so you can become rich; and white clothes to wear, so you can cover your shameful nakedness; and salve to put on your eyes, so you can see. 19. Those whom I love I rebuke and discipline. So be earnest, and repent. 20. Here I am! I stand at the door and knock. If anyone hears my voice and opens the door, I will come in and eat with him, and he with me. 21. To him who overcomes, I will give the right to sit with me on my throne, just as I overcame and sat down with my Father on his throne. 22. He who has an ear, let him hear what the Spirit says to the churches."


What is being said here? You think you have it all figured out and call yourself rich or enlightened when you are wretched, blind, naked etc.

What is the remedy? He comes in and EATS with them and THAT alone makes everything ok. Just because he shows up everything is right. Wow.

You mean he doesn't first send all the orders, laws, requirements... dress the women correctly, correct the pastor and his teachings, make the finance committee books balance, edit the singers out to whom is perfect etc.. before he solves all the issues.

NO.. The answer is just HIM. All the other issues fall away.

[macgulley]

blah, blah, blah, blah, blah.....and blah.
For some reason...I didn't expect you doofuses to agree with me.


Mat 22:29 ...Ye do err, not knowing the scriptures, nor the power of God.

This doofus is willing to accept any scriptures that detail God's definition of modesty. Please list them.

[RaceRunner]

blah, blah, blah, blah, blah.....and blah.
For some reason...I didn't expect you doofuses to agree with me.


Mat 22:29 ...Ye do err, not knowing the scriptures, nor the power of God.

This doofus is willing to accept any scriptures that detail God's definition of modesty. Please list them.

Go back and R-E-A-D.

My issue is not with the definitions of modesty. Ya'll already have countless threads on that subject already. Many I have chosen not to read because of their titles.

This young lady/new convert does not deserve to be the "topic of the week" on this forum. Neither does she deserve to be "joked about" (ogled) by some of the men of this forum.

I pray no one gives this precious convert the link to this site.

This is what I am calling ya'll out on.

[Full Quiver]

The picture should have never been posted without her permission since it was naturally assumed it would cause such a commotion. One day, the laws of libel & slander may actually apply to discussion forums.

As well as pulpits, telephone converstaions, and dinner discussions.

[dawgs10]

"RaceRunner"]

Although many claim that the standards of modesty are variable from person to person...region to region...country to country....the standard and light of God's Holiness remains the same...without variableness or shadow of turning.

This is how half truths come in to play. Your statement is both true and false.

The standard of God's holiness remains the same..without variableness and shadow of turning. TRUE

You are using that scripture to imply and support an argument that their should be no difference in the view of modesty around the world, different cultures. FALSE

No offense to those on the forum from Alabama, which is were your flag says you are from, but the whole world does not live in Alabama, nor in a southern gospel belt mind set and to modesty. To often we are quilty of telling God what His standards of holiness are, in light of what we have come to accept as our standards.

God's standard is what is placed in our hearts. I can look at bare breast all day long on the mission field, pray for the ladies, see them breast feed the children and never be bothered by it, nor feel embarrased.

But if I happen to see the bare breast by a lady bending over in a lobby, by accident, I look away. Why? because there is a difference. I know the difference. And to me that is what this thread is about. As christians we know the difference.

I am glad that God not only looks at my heart but also knows my heart.

im sorry paul but because people are different in other regions, countries, areas of the world dont make things right or wrong. i didnt see the picture that was spoken about. i have just given my opinion on public dress. we must be clear as christians where we stand, what is not accetable and what is. and culture does not control what is right and wrong. i know some missonaries will not agree but Gods standard is not controled by culture. when Jesus said if commit sin in your heart it is the same as commiting the sin outward that is what he meant. if women are dressing to cause men to lust and men are lusting its both ways and its wrong.

[Russell Roberts]

What we need are some more rules. Heck, if we are to be holy we need more rules. In fact, our righteousnes must EXCEED that of the Pharisees. I recommend that we use the O.T. simply as a starting point. Let's make the rules there look like child's play. Let's draw up a list of rules that would make the Pharisees look like liberals.

I kinda like the whole Muslim approach. We could insist that our women wear the Hajab. Except that is just a tad bit too revealing...you can still see their eyes. Now I don't know about you, but nothing gets me excited like a sexy pair of eyes.

Here's an idea. Maybe we could insist that our women just lie under a pile of burlap. We could tie a rope to the pile and if they wanted to move or somthing, we could pull the rope while they scurry along underneath it. Whatdya say guys? Hey, it's a start!

[paul]

"RaceRunner"]

Although many claim that the standards of modesty are variable from person to person...region to region...country to country....the standard and light of God's Holiness remains the same...without variableness or shadow of turning.

This is how half truths come in to play. Your statement is both true and false.

The standard of God's holiness remains the same..without variableness and shadow of turning. TRUE

You are using that scripture to imply and support an argument that their should be no difference in the view of modesty around the world, different cultures. FALSE

No offense to those on the forum from Alabama, which is were your flag says you are from, but the whole world does not live in Alabama, nor in a southern gospel belt mind set and to modesty. To often we are quilty of telling God what His standards of holiness are, in light of what we have come to accept as our standards.

God's standard is what is placed in our hearts. I can look at bare breast all day long on the mission field, pray for the ladies, see them breast feed the children and never be bothered by it, nor feel embarrased.

But if I happen to see the bare breast by a lady bending over in a lobby, by accident, I look away. Why? because there is a difference. I know the difference. And to me that is what this thread is about. As christians we know the difference.

I am glad that God not only looks at my heart but also knows my heart.

im sorry paul but because people are different in other regions, countries, areas of the world dont make things right or wrong. i didnt see the picture that was spoken about. i have just given my opinion on public dress. we must be clear as christians where we stand, what is not accetable and what is. and culture does not control what is right and wrong. i know some missonaries will not agree but Gods standard is not controled by culture. when Jesus said if commit sin in your heart it is the same as commiting the sin outward that is what he meant. if women are dressing to cause men to lust and men are lusting its both ways and its wrong.

dawgs10

Culture does not control what is right or wrong. I do not disagree with that at all. And I believe that God does indeed have a standard.

My disagreement comes when we use our traditions, our standards, and our interpretations to define that standard and then place it on everyone. And then view them as less or not saved, or somehow sinful because they do not live up to the standard that we have set.

[RaceRunner]

The picture should have never been posted without her permission since it was naturally assumed it would cause such a commotion. One day, the laws of libel & slander may actually apply to discussion forums.[ /quote]

As well as pulpits, telephone converstaions, and dinner discussions.

Or newspaper articles in other states.

[Full Quiver]

[quote]Or newspaper articles in other states./quote] Agreed and I have never written one nor have I sent an "official" yet not all inclusive letter to said newspaper for publishing

[RaceRunner]

Go pick another topic for a change and leave this new convert alone.

ALL of you.

Liberal / Conservative alike.

Let the numerous threads created about this nonsense sink to blessed oblivion.

Wear what you want. Revel in your liberties.

I'm not your judge. God is.

The only person I can answer for is me.

However, God has promised judgment if this forum causes or has caused a stumbling block to this new convert. The error does not lie on her doorstep.

Gal 5:13-17 For, brethren, ye have been called unto liberty; only use not liberty for an occasion to the flesh, but by love serve one another.
14 For all the law is fulfilled in one word, even in this; Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself.
15 But if ye bite and devour one another, take heed that ye be not consumed one of another.
16 This I say then, Walk in the Spirit, and ye shall not fulfil the lust of the flesh.
17 For the flesh lusteth against the Spirit, and the Spirit against the flesh: and these are contrary the one to the other: so that ye cannot do the things that ye would.


Ya'll like to pick on TCOG. Go ahead...start a new thread and pour out your hatred for it. We can take it....we have big enough shoulders.

But using this new convert as a topic of debate is ridiculous and sinful.

How do you eat an elephant? One bite at a time.

[Pastor Gary]

im sorry paul but because people are different in other regions, countries, areas of the world dont make things right or wrong.

And there you have it. Paul, you can't just go into those foreign countries and tell the heathen savages about Jesus; first you have to Americanize them and teach them how to dress like proper white, middle-class Americans. We have to get those Samoans and Tongans out of their lava-lavas, because men are surely prohibited in scripture (somehow... somewhere...) from wearing what is obviously a woman's wrap-around skirt! Shameful! And those Africans and South Americans using those paganistic, fleshly instruments and dances in worship? That MUST stop. You need take them some guitars, upright pianos and tambourines so they can sing out of the Blue Book like God intended. There can be NO differing standards in different places, because the Lord is the same yesterday, today and forever (and in every place, too.) Let's just be sure we set the cause of reaching the world for Christ back another few decades until we get all those wacky foreigners straightened out and walking right.

if women are dressing to cause men to lust and men are lusting its both ways and its wrong.

Straight question here: does anyone in their right mind honestly want to tell me that the person who sparked this unbelievably stupid (IMHO) controversy had as her intent "dressing to cause men to lust" or that there is any evidence that the "men are lusting"?

[macgulley]

What we need are some more rules. Heck, if we are to be holy we need more rules. In fact, our righteousnes must EXCEED that of the Pharisees. I recommend that we use the O.T. simply as a starting point. Let's make the rules there look like child's play. Let's draw up a list of rules that would make the Pharisees look like liberals.

[RaceRunner]

im sorry paul but because people are different in other regions, countries, areas of the world dont make things right or wrong.

And there you have it. Paul, you can't just go into those foreign countries and tell the heathen savages about Jesus; first you have to Americanize them and teach them how to dress like proper white, middle-class Americans. We have to get those Samoans and Tongans out of their lava-lavas, because men are surely prohibited in scripture (somehow... somewhere...) from wearing what is obviously a woman's wrap-around skirt! Shameful! And those Africans and South Americans using those paganistic, fleshly instruments and dances in worship? That MUST stop. You need take them some guitars, upright pianos and tambourines so they can sing out of the Blue Book like God intended. There can be NO differing standards in different places, because the Lord is the same yesterday, today and forever (and in every place, too.) Let's just be sure we set the cause of reaching the world for Christ back another few decades until we get all those wacky foreigners straightened out and walking right.

Well, here ya go....

Sin And Shame (excerpt from M. A. Tomlinson's Annual Address 1969)

...Fashions and customs have varied from generation to generation and from nation to nation. But our unchanging -God spoke His Word to all nations and generations without respect of persons. There is nothing in It which any nation, in any era of time, cannot obey. Your General Overseer has lived to see fashions change from one extreme to another for over half a century, but the Word of God reads and means the same as it did 50 years ago.

Since the written Word has stood the test for almost 6,000 years, blessing every generation that has obeyed It, it seems unreasonable and dangerous to contend for some of the radical changes which even the religious world is trying to thrust upon us in the last one or two generations.

We must guard against following customs, traditions, and fashions which violate the principles of Christ. That which is a necessity in one part of the world must not become an excuse in other parts of the world where the necessity does not exist. For example, economic conditions in some areas have made millions of people almost destitute, and sufficient clothing is very difficult to obtain; but where clothing is available, our people should clothe themselves modestly.

[dawgs10]

im sorry paul but because people are different in other regions, countries, areas of the world dont make things right or wrong.

And there you have it. Paul, you can't just go into those foreign countries and tell the heathen savages about Jesus; first you have to Americanize them and teach them how to dress like proper white, middle-class Americans. We have to get those Samoans and Tongans out of their lava-lavas, because men are surely prohibited in scripture (somehow... somewhere...) from wearing what is obviously a woman's wrap-around skirt! Shameful! And those Africans and South Americans using those paganistic, fleshly instruments and dances in worship? That MUST stop. You need take them some guitars, upright pianos and tambourines so they can sing out of the Blue Book like God intended. There can be NO differing standards in different places, because the Lord is the same yesterday, today and forever (and in every place, too.) Let's just be sure we set the cause of reaching the world for Christ back another few decades until we get all those wacky foreigners straightened out and walking right.

if women are dressing to cause men to lust and men are lusting its both ways and its wrong.

Straight question here: does anyone in their right mind honestly want to tell me that the person who sparked this unbelievably stupid (IMHO) controversy had as her intent "dressing to cause men to lust" or that there is any evidence that the "men are lusting"?

again, i am not saying that the person in the picture was trying to do anything wrong. what i am saying is that women in america know what will cause a man to lust and they do it and thats wrong. women in the somoan islands know what will cause a man to lust and they do it. (it may take more than a lava lava but they know and they do it). so what is wrong is wrong and i think we all know what that is. women do and men do and it happens all the time and its wrong on both sides. Christians must be a light to a dieing world not part of a dieing world. thats all im saying. how can you disagree Pastor Gary?

[Pastor Gary]

Well, here ya go....

Sin And Shame (excerpt from M. A. Tomlinson's Annual Address 1969)

This will come as a huge shock, I know, but the canon of scripture is closed. I know... hard to believe... but the Annual Addresses of any leader of any group being cited as "evidence" as if they were scripture is pretty... pretty... I don't know: laughable?