I suggest we all become Muslims.

[dolfan]

Brian, like you did, I want to use something you said as a jumping point, and not a jumping-on-you point. About the tone of the debate: these kinds of disagreements are helpful things. When Peter and Paul stood toe-to-toe, Acts does not record anyone's disdain at the tone of the debate. These are challenges to each other. It is not pretty if you don't have a stomach for it. But, I submit to you that those who do stomach it and participate in it in a way, as Pastor Gary said, where you still love each other (really, genuinely) after all is said and done, that it is those people who help advance ideas about things.

You've been here for a long while. You know that this forum is a little responsible for some changes of thought and heart and mind in a really good direction for some people, maybe many. It is precisely this kind of head-butting that, over time, moves people in a better direction.

Poimen is even going to devote some time to researching this and putting some work together on it as a pastoral burden he has about it. Whether I agree with all of what he might conclude is beside the point. The great thing is he's going to do it and he feels it necessary for his congregation and I'm all gang-busters for him to watch his folks. Now, how can I have a problem with that and think it is not good?

He's also been the recipient of some criticism, from me, from others. This is going to go to what PG talked about regarding love. Poimen and I, although we've never met personally, have talked on the phone to one another once or twice and for whatever other reasons have, through J2, clicked. I sincerely, truly, absolutely believe in this guy's true-blue soul about the faith as much as I do anyone's. We have PM'd back and forth about this debate and you know what? We're honest with each other and we have this really kind, fuzzy-wuzzy spirit to one another even as we challenge each other on some tougher points. I'll say the same for RaceRunner. She doesn't pull any punches, and I doubt she'd say that I do, but we still respect one another (I think she does ). I can't say that it is that way with everyone, but it would be the exception and not the rule for sure. You can do what you can do.

[Brian]

Ok, believe it or not I am kinda known as a peace maker amoung my friends and peers. I know how Jude2 works just as you do but man sometimes it's hard to see the love beyond the discourse. I know Poimen can handle his own, and I know he probably knows how things go in this type of public forum but I would be willing to bet if you asked him how much "love" he felt as of late it would probably be not too much. (Hey Poimen I don't mean to speak for you, just my observation.)

I am all for good hearted heated debate and iron sharping iron and all that, but I guess sometimes it just seems to get a little too down and dirty and in those times I suppose I need to lay low.

And Wendy, if your reading this, it really did kinda hurt when you gave your opinion of what kind of person you thought I was. I thought you and I were cool with each other and then blammo, I'm all of a sudden the know it all johnny come lately! That is soooooooo not me!! But I ok, we're good.......I hope.