Should we Torture Prisoners to Obtain Information??

[dolfan]

My prayer would be 'Prepare to meet thy God.'

[Russell Roberts]

Feed them but stop them. If they're going to keep killing helping them is abetting them. Which neighbor do you love when you have pick one you are helping to kill? I say stop the one that is a danger to innocents.

I agree that this isn't an easy topic. I am facing the same kind of question regarding any potential threats to my family. Should I dish out some 9mm justice if they are attacked? I'm not sure. Would I? You bet. But what should I do? That is the question. How do we reconcile the ethical program set forth by Jesus in the Sermon on the Mount? Was his sermon a speech about timeless truths? Or was his sermon for THAT particular audience for that specific time?

Honestly, I think he was giving Israel an outline of how to be Israel if they were to avoid the judgment that eventually befell them after rejecting his message of peace.

[Pastor Gary]

Personally, I would lie.

Russell, the truth is, most of us would weigh the options and lie, because the generally accepted answer is that the lie is actually the greater good in such a horrible forced choice.

Which illustrates the problem with forced choices and "lesser-of-the-two-evils" conundrums.

[Russell Roberts]

It is a conundrum isn't it Pastor Gary? The cross is, similarly, a paradox. How can someone defeat death by dying? Somehow Jesus had to become subject to the power of death to defeat it. In a sense, it is an illusion. Jesus appeared to be failing. Instead, he was achieving the greatest victory in the history of creation.

Could it be that we are to repeat this pattern somehow?

[Paully_44]

depends, are there immodest bikini's involved?

[forestwalker]

Which is 'eviller': torture or getting soft on murderers? Torture isn't about retribution, but stopping people from killing innocents. If we cannot act to do that, how do you justify war where killing is the goal?

Problem is, the bolded part is largely untrue.

[scooter]

I think I might. Convince me different.

Idn't that scary!

However I have a couple of questions, Is Hell torture?

Is there a difference between torture for reasons and torture for no reason?

How about being delivered to tormentors?

Are there Biblical angels which seem to point that God has similiar ideas?

Don't that just bust our grace filled bubble?

[dawgs10]

Yea, right. Can you see Jesus torturing prisoners. Give me a break. Of course not. We should not torture people. It's inhumane.

YES YES YES we should. its war!!!!

[Russell Roberts]

I think I might. Convince me different.

Idn't that scary!

However I have a couple of questions, Is Hell torture?

Is there a difference between torture for reasons and torture for no reason?

How about being delivered to tormentors?

Are there Biblical angels which seem to point that God has similiar ideas?

Don't that just bust our grace filled bubble?

Whatever hell is, being void of the presence of anything good or absent any influence of God, I'm pretty sure that hell will be torture for those unfortunate enough to go there or to end up in that state.

Because God has a certain divine prerogative, does that extend to mankind? For example, God retains the right to deal out vengence insisting that we defer to him as the final arbiter of justice. I don't think that we can safely assume that we have the same rights.

[scooter]

Whatever hell is, being void of the presence of anything good or absent any influence of God, I'm pretty sure that hell will be torture for those unfortunate enough to go there or to end up in that state.

Because God has a certain divine prerogative, does that extend to mankind? For example, God retains the right to deal out vengence insisting that we defer to him as the final arbiter of justice. I don't think that we can safely assume that we have the same rights.

Response: But wouldn't that be like a do as I say not as I do approach?

Many people use the same argument with the death penalty. I say it was God's idea, and he instructed people to carry that out.

It is true that God does use mankind to carry out certain aspects of His justice. Could torture be a sort of that sword?

[Russell Roberts]

Whatever hell is, being void of the presence of anything good or absent any influence of God, I'm pretty sure that hell will be torture for those unfortunate enough to go there or to end up in that state.

Because God has a certain divine prerogative, does that extend to mankind? For example, God retains the right to deal out vengence insisting that we defer to him as the final arbiter of justice. I don't think that we can safely assume that we have the same rights.

Response: But wouldn't that be like a do as I say not as I do approach?

Many people use the same argument with the death penalty. I say it was God's idea, and he instructed people to carry that out.

It is true that God does use mankind to carry out certain aspects of His justice. Could torture be a sort of that sword?

Well, we have to concede that in the case of vengence, God does use a 'do as I say and not as I do' approach. He apparently reserves certain rights to himself. The same might also be said of forgiveness. But in the case of forgiveness, this authority to forgive or retain sins appears to have been extended to the disciples. Whether this extends to the Church body as a whole would be interesting to explore.

Your observation that some aspects of God's justice extend to mankind is a good one. Paul notes that governments are charged with enforcing his justice though we must also recognize that they often fail to do so.

I am undecided on capitol punishment but I don't see it in the same vein as torture. I used to have no probem with the idea. But then I ask myself 'Could I carry it out? Could I torture another human being?' And my response is always 'No, I couldn't'. The ability to really torture another human being I think would singify to me that I had lost something of what it means to be human.

[dolfan]

Torturing someone would be beyond any sense or feeling or moral drive I've ever personally known. I cannot imagine being in that position.

At the same time, I think I would find some satisfaction in stopping an evildoer or one assisting an evildoer. When Jesus drove the corrupt moneychangers from the temple, he did it with violence. That is not an example of anything germane to this except that physical resistance to evil was practiced by Jesus Himself on one recorded occasion. I can't stretch that to justify torture.

Torture is not pretty. It may not even be moral. All I know is if I'm in a position to stop serious harm to innocents by the torture of someone capable, proximate, and intending to do that harm or to aid someone who will be, then hand me the electric leads. I'd rather there be one body bag or maimed person than dozens, hundreds and thousands, especially where that one would be filled with a person who intends to kill himself in the process of harming others anyway, or who would put himself in a shootout anyway.

[Brandon Bowers]

These are the great Theological/philosophical debates that have raged for centuries;

Telling a lie is wrong. God hates liars. 1942 Germany... you have 12 Jews hidden in your attic, and Nazi soldiers come to your door and ask "Have you any Jews here?" Is the righteous thing to speak truth and send 12 innocents to their death, or to lie to the Nazis and protect the life of the hidden Jews?

This comes down to a question of the heart of the law or the letter of the law. I choose the Law of Love.. Save the Jews!

[rough_rider]

Depends. I've never seen Jack Bauer do anything I disagreed with.

Agreed!

[RamboPreacher]

Depends. I've never seen Jack Bauer do anything I disagreed with.

Agreed!

weird, that is what I was gonna say.